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The term kung fu refers to anything that is acquired through determination and practice. A great artist, dancer, singer, or even a great janitor, all have kung

The term kung fu refers to anything that is acquired through determination and practice. A great artist, dancer, singer, or even a great janitor, all have kung fu. So a measure of kung fu in a society is really a measure of how many people choose to become great at the things they do. This is more a commentary on martial arts capabilities, which is less relevant in a world where physical danger is increasingly rare. While I strongly advocate for practicing it (I have been a student of Wing Chun for 3 years now), it makes perfect sense why Asian millenials don't find it very important.

coldtea 10y ago
Not in the article's sense (or the common non-Chinese sense).
astazangasta 10y ago
'yoga', btw, has the same meaning in Sanskrit.
- ferentchak 10y ago
  I have never heard it referred to that way. Usually I have heard Yoga described as union. As the term applies to the asanas the union between breath and movement. My quick 30 seconds of googling supports what I had been taught but those old words can really have a broad set of meaning depending on who is using them
  - astazangasta 10y ago
    I've started hearing that use of the word 'yoga' in the context of yoga instructors as well, but I don't think it's accurate even if it is evocative. The closest meaning of 'yoga' is probably 'control', having the same root as the word 'yoke'. The earliest techniques are about control of the breath, so the idea of the word meaning 'union' doesn't really make sense to me, except in that the goal of yoga, like most activities in the Hindu sphere, may be couched as seeking samadhi/unity with creation. I've always thought of "yoga" as meaning "discipline", as in, "a discipline or practice", or even "school of thought".
    - boxy310 10y ago
      Also, even in English the phrase "taking up the yoke" is one of discipline and possibly servitude, as distinct from simply joining together. Also, Googling "one ox yoke" returns around 50/50 split between two-ox and one-ox yokes, so the act of yoking is not necessarily dual in nature, although traditional yokes are not capable of adding additional oxen (and instead are arranged in reins, like with a stagecoach).
      - hosh 10y ago
        When translated into the modern, English-speaking culture, words and ideas of discipline gets distorted. There is usually a meaning-sense of servitude floating around. People see the old kung-fu movies and thinks that is what is about. A master can refer to a master of an art or a master to your slave. It can be understood like that. However, a master of an enlightenment vehicle is a master of self. A art can be an enlightenment vehicle, but few in the modern world will see it that way. This misunderstanding is the generator of a lot of drama :-D
    - hosh 10y ago
      For the ancients, breath was spirit. "Union" refers to "Union with God". This idea was not exclusive to the Indian culture. In English, the roots of words like "inspire", "expire", "respire", "perspire" relate to old root words for spirit and breath. Modern Yoga inherits the ideas and methods of classical Tantra, though often in a degenerated or distorted way. That is why you have teachers ascribing meanings like that. It means there is a semantic ahift going on, but don't confuse it with it's historical roots. I expect Chinese martial arts to go into a similar decline. Many of the fighting arts come from either a Buddhist or a Taoist neigong lineage. For example, there is a reason to work on horse stande for a while, but it is non-obvious. My own teacher in the US was interested in teaching a classical form in a modern way: forms and fighting methods. He was very good at decoding the applications from a form in a flexible way. I ran through the entire cirriculum in about a year. Then I stopped practicing regularly. It wasn't until years later that I found a neigong method that works with the art. It's something I am undertaking by myself, just myself, my body, and my internal energy. It took two yeara to just get through the preliminaries and shed enough of emotional crap to start integrating things into the movement. Once I started doing thaf, stuff like training in horse stance like the classical teaching method, makes more sense. It's pretty amazing stuff, and even though I am touching the tip of the iceburg, I do feel sad. There are not many who will want to invest the time in this. The payoff takes too long. That's ok. All things come and go.
- hvmonk 10y ago
  Yoga is a Sanskrit word, which means union. It is much broader and deeper than doing physical asanas. The asanas is just the tip of iceberg :) As you said, when you practice the asanas, your body and breath becomes more controlled. The next level is you control your thoughts - and not vice versa -> union of body, breath and mind. As you become more serene, your meditation starts getting deeper -> union of mind, body, breath and self. I came across this video recently, where three "genuine" yoga teachers are asking questions about yoga and meditation. The format is initial 10-12 minutes, the yoga teachers talk about their experiences, and then in rest of the video, they ask questions to Sri Sri Ravishankar about deepening mediation with yoga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7HEmsY29EU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7HEmsY29EU
  - hosh 10y ago
    If you are interested in this stuff, check out Christopher Wallis's Tantra Illuminated. It describes the potent View of classical tantra and has a history section tracing it to modern yoga.
altendo 10y ago
> kung fu refers to anything that is acquired through determination and practice In Netflix's Marco Polo, there is an excellent scene that conveys this very idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIieUmp0aZ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIieUmp0aZ0
agumonkey 10y ago
It makes sense; but it's still a "too bad" idea. Even crude physical exercise that challenges your limit, your perception of your body, your sense of time under duress, is of great value. Even if you'll never need the physical strength. I wish people kept nurturing the social desire for such sports.
phaemon 10y ago
Which makes Neo's line in The Matrix, "I know Kung Fu", rather ironic, since the knowledge was implanted directly into his brain!
- burrows 10y ago
  Interesting. Morpheus replies to Neo, "Show Me". They then enter the para-Matrix and fight. Neo's "Kung Fu" (martial arts) can't beat Morpheus. Eventually Morpheus convinces Neo that winning the fight has less to do with knowing martial arts than it does with knowing how to bend/break rules. Neo is of course a hacker who has spent countless hours learning to massage and bend computer systems, so he does indeed know the requisite Kung Fu.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - agumonkey 10y ago
    Very interesting. Since "hard" mostly means going above the limit, physical and mental. Nurtured instead of native.
the_rosentotter 10y ago
Watch the Chinese classic Shaolin Soccer for a humorous illustration of this concept :)

coldtea 10y ago

Not in the article's sense (or the common non-Chinese sense).

astazangasta 10y ago

'yoga', btw, has the same meaning in Sanskrit.

ferentchak 10y ago
I have never heard it referred to that way. Usually I have heard Yoga described as union. As the term applies to the asanas the union between breath and movement. My quick 30 seconds of googling supports what I had been taught but those old words can really have a broad set of meaning depending on who is using them
- astazangasta 10y ago
  I've started hearing that use of the word 'yoga' in the context of yoga instructors as well, but I don't think it's accurate even if it is evocative. The closest meaning of 'yoga' is probably 'control', having the same root as the word 'yoke'. The earliest techniques are about control of the breath, so the idea of the word meaning 'union' doesn't really make sense to me, except in that the goal of yoga, like most activities in the Hindu sphere, may be couched as seeking samadhi/unity with creation. I've always thought of "yoga" as meaning "discipline", as in, "a discipline or practice", or even "school of thought".
  - boxy310 10y ago
    Also, even in English the phrase "taking up the yoke" is one of discipline and possibly servitude, as distinct from simply joining together. Also, Googling "one ox yoke" returns around 50/50 split between two-ox and one-ox yokes, so the act of yoking is not necessarily dual in nature, although traditional yokes are not capable of adding additional oxen (and instead are arranged in reins, like with a stagecoach).
    - hosh 10y ago
      When translated into the modern, English-speaking culture, words and ideas of discipline gets distorted. There is usually a meaning-sense of servitude floating around. People see the old kung-fu movies and thinks that is what is about. A master can refer to a master of an art or a master to your slave. It can be understood like that. However, a master of an enlightenment vehicle is a master of self. A art can be an enlightenment vehicle, but few in the modern world will see it that way. This misunderstanding is the generator of a lot of drama :-D
  - hosh 10y ago
    For the ancients, breath was spirit. "Union" refers to "Union with God". This idea was not exclusive to the Indian culture. In English, the roots of words like "inspire", "expire", "respire", "perspire" relate to old root words for spirit and breath. Modern Yoga inherits the ideas and methods of classical Tantra, though often in a degenerated or distorted way. That is why you have teachers ascribing meanings like that. It means there is a semantic ahift going on, but don't confuse it with it's historical roots. I expect Chinese martial arts to go into a similar decline. Many of the fighting arts come from either a Buddhist or a Taoist neigong lineage. For example, there is a reason to work on horse stande for a while, but it is non-obvious. My own teacher in the US was interested in teaching a classical form in a modern way: forms and fighting methods. He was very good at decoding the applications from a form in a flexible way. I ran through the entire cirriculum in about a year. Then I stopped practicing regularly. It wasn't until years later that I found a neigong method that works with the art. It's something I am undertaking by myself, just myself, my body, and my internal energy. It took two yeara to just get through the preliminaries and shed enough of emotional crap to start integrating things into the movement. Once I started doing thaf, stuff like training in horse stance like the classical teaching method, makes more sense. It's pretty amazing stuff, and even though I am touching the tip of the iceburg, I do feel sad. There are not many who will want to invest the time in this. The payoff takes too long. That's ok. All things come and go.
hvmonk 10y ago
Yoga is a Sanskrit word, which means union. It is much broader and deeper than doing physical asanas. The asanas is just the tip of iceberg :) As you said, when you practice the asanas, your body and breath becomes more controlled. The next level is you control your thoughts - and not vice versa -> union of body, breath and mind. As you become more serene, your meditation starts getting deeper -> union of mind, body, breath and self. I came across this video recently, where three "genuine" yoga teachers are asking questions about yoga and meditation. The format is initial 10-12 minutes, the yoga teachers talk about their experiences, and then in rest of the video, they ask questions to Sri Sri Ravishankar about deepening mediation with yoga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7HEmsY29EU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7HEmsY29EU
- hosh 10y ago
  If you are interested in this stuff, check out Christopher Wallis's Tantra Illuminated. It describes the potent View of classical tantra and has a history section tracing it to modern yoga.

altendo 10y ago

> kung fu refers to anything that is acquired through determination and practice In Netflix's Marco Polo, there is an excellent scene that conveys this very idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIieUmp0aZ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIieUmp0aZ0

agumonkey 10y ago

It makes sense; but it's still a "too bad" idea. Even crude physical exercise that challenges your limit, your perception of your body, your sense of time under duress, is of great value. Even if you'll never need the physical strength. I wish people kept nurturing the social desire for such sports.

phaemon 10y ago

Which makes Neo's line in The Matrix, "I know Kung Fu", rather ironic, since the knowledge was implanted directly into his brain!

burrows 10y ago
Interesting. Morpheus replies to Neo, "Show Me". They then enter the para-Matrix and fight. Neo's "Kung Fu" (martial arts) can't beat Morpheus. Eventually Morpheus convinces Neo that winning the fight has less to do with knowing martial arts than it does with knowing how to bend/break rules. Neo is of course a hacker who has spent countless hours learning to massage and bend computer systems, so he does indeed know the requisite Kung Fu.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- agumonkey 10y ago
  Very interesting. Since "hard" mostly means going above the limit, physical and mental. Nurtured instead of native.

the_rosentotter 10y ago

Watch the Chinese classic Shaolin Soccer for a humorous illustration of this concept :)