8 ms·

I think you are over-selling the internet's contribution. The growth of MMA has been the real driver. UFC1 (and even PRIDE, a bit) was originally billed as a 'm

by arcanus 10y ago

I think you are over-selling the internet's contribution. The growth of MMA has been the real driver. UFC1 (and even PRIDE, a bit) was originally billed as a 'meeting of martial arts styles', where different disciplines could compete. The fact that an undersized ji-jitsu master won the first UFC really demonstrated the efficacy of that martial art. The present ascendency of Muay Thai and BJJ (Brazilian school of ji-jitsu) is a direct product of this sorting of martial arts effectiveness against competing disciplines. Karate and Kung-Fu's substantial drop are also related, as they are essentially unused in modern MMA.

gakada 10y ago
And where does the average young person in Hong Kong go to watch MMA? YouTube. As a Brit, the only reason I can even comprehend your comment, is because I have read Americans talking about UFC on the internet, and watched some clips on youtube.
- Ntrails 10y ago
  > And where does the average young person in Hong Kong go to watch MMA? YouTube. If they watch MMA at all. I have no idea what the market penetration of MMA is globally but I think it's a stretch to assume that the majority of children interested in martial arts are influenced by it.
mightybyte 10y ago
> The present ascendency of Muay Thai and BJJ (Brazilian school of ji-jitsu) is a direct product of this sorting of martial arts effectiveness against competing disciplines. Karate and Kung-Fu's substantial drop are also related, as they are essentially unused in modern MMA. It's important to keep in mind that many of the most effective self defense techniques are illegal in organized fighting competitions. These include eye gouging, throat strikes, biting, joint breaks, stomps, kidney shots, downward elbows, etc. IMO this seriously limits the ability of these competitions to predict how various styles will fare in real life or death self defense situations.
- S_Daedalus 10y ago
  I used to think that too, but to be honest, how many good MMA fighters leave those kind of openings?
  - mightybyte 10y ago
    I would say very often. For an example, let's look at the throat strike. Any time you could plausibly punch someone in the face, it could instead be a throat strike. It takes much less force to end a confrontation with a strike to the throat than it does to the face. This seriously changes the dynamics of the confrontation. This same reasoning also applies pretty well to eye gouges. Now consider hits to the back of the head. If an MMA fighter exposes the back of his head to you, the quickest way to end it would be a palm strike to the base of the skull: lights out. But because that's illegal fighters will be a lot more likely to go for something like a rear naked choke, taking the fight to the ground and artificially inflating the value of grappling. And that's just three of the many illegal moves.
    - caminante 10y ago
      I don't view the unified MMA rules as demonstrative of a technique's effectiveness. The rules were crafted to preserve the longevity of fighter careers. These are trained fighters on an even playing field. Pulling off eye gouging and throat strikes are low probability and expose a fighter. Bas Rutten has a bit on these techniques, their effectiveness, and how doing either leaves an opening.
      - mightybyte 10y ago
        > Pulling off eye gouging and throat strikes are low probability and expose a fighter. A throat strike is no lower probability or more exposing than pulling off a punch to the face. It's just a couple inches away...
        caminante 10y ago
busterarm 10y ago
Knockdown Karate is still a part of many top fighters' arsenal. K-1 was started by Seidokaikan martial artists. That's just not the kind of thing folks are learning at their local Tiger Schulman's. Also the political drama surrounding the split of Kyokushin has caused it to virtually disappear in most areas.
caminante 10y ago
I think you are over-selling the internet's contribution. The growth of MMA has been the real driver. I think you're talking past the parent comment. He's saying that the Internet shined a light and exposed "bullshido" martial arts. BJJ, muay thai, wrestling, and kickboxing didn't need an MMA forum to raise doubts. They needed visibility. The Internet makes the social proof easily accessible without having to buy a PPV, rent a DVD, or attend a fight. The exposure has correctly labeled many of these cultish martial arts for what they are -- ineffective combat systems. The sad part is that for a sizeable minority, it almost takes a Youtube intervention with many videos such as this one [0] to convince them that no amount of aikido training will let them mow through a wave of attackers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
- JulianMorrison 10y ago
  Some of them are nonsense. Some of them are a knife being used as a screwdriver. A duelling art is not a sport art is not a self-defense art.
  - S_Daedalus 10y ago
    As an avid fencer, I couldn't agree more! My first instinct, trained into me for years with fencing has to do with scoring points on specific areas, in specific ways, not killing or surviving. It might look a little similar to the uninitiated, but it's basically night and day. Never mind that I've trained with little metal foils, sabers and epees, that probably weigh a fraction of a proper steel blade, I just wouldn't know what to do with it to literally save my life.
    - JulianMorrison 10y ago
      If you want to experience the difference, maybe look into any local HEMA groups. Full weight steel swords aren't all that heavy, especially if well balanced, but they have inertia and aren't whippy and flexible.
      - 10y ago
gambler 10y ago
Many people tend to forget that Gracies were partly responsible for organizing UFC1 and that self-promotion was very much the goal of their involvement.

by arcanus 10y ago

gakada 10y ago

And where does the average young person in Hong Kong go to watch MMA? YouTube. As a Brit, the only reason I can even comprehend your comment, is because I have read Americans talking about UFC on the internet, and watched some clips on youtube.

Ntrails 10y ago
> And where does the average young person in Hong Kong go to watch MMA? YouTube. If they watch MMA at all. I have no idea what the market penetration of MMA is globally but I think it's a stretch to assume that the majority of children interested in martial arts are influenced by it.

mightybyte 10y ago

> The present ascendency of Muay Thai and BJJ (Brazilian school of ji-jitsu) is a direct product of this sorting of martial arts effectiveness against competing disciplines. Karate and Kung-Fu's substantial drop are also related, as they are essentially unused in modern MMA. It's important to keep in mind that many of the most effective self defense techniques are illegal in organized fighting competitions. These include eye gouging, throat strikes, biting, joint breaks, stomps, kidney shots, downward elbows, etc. IMO this seriously limits the ability of these competitions to predict how various styles will fare in real life or death self defense situations.

S_Daedalus 10y ago
I used to think that too, but to be honest, how many good MMA fighters leave those kind of openings?
- mightybyte 10y ago
  I would say very often. For an example, let's look at the throat strike. Any time you could plausibly punch someone in the face, it could instead be a throat strike. It takes much less force to end a confrontation with a strike to the throat than it does to the face. This seriously changes the dynamics of the confrontation. This same reasoning also applies pretty well to eye gouges. Now consider hits to the back of the head. If an MMA fighter exposes the back of his head to you, the quickest way to end it would be a palm strike to the base of the skull: lights out. But because that's illegal fighters will be a lot more likely to go for something like a rear naked choke, taking the fight to the ground and artificially inflating the value of grappling. And that's just three of the many illegal moves.
  - caminante 10y ago
    I don't view the unified MMA rules as demonstrative of a technique's effectiveness. The rules were crafted to preserve the longevity of fighter careers. These are trained fighters on an even playing field. Pulling off eye gouging and throat strikes are low probability and expose a fighter. Bas Rutten has a bit on these techniques, their effectiveness, and how doing either leaves an opening.
    - mightybyte 10y ago
      > Pulling off eye gouging and throat strikes are low probability and expose a fighter. A throat strike is no lower probability or more exposing than pulling off a punch to the face. It's just a couple inches away...
      - caminante 10y ago

busterarm 10y ago

Knockdown Karate is still a part of many top fighters' arsenal. K-1 was started by Seidokaikan martial artists. That's just not the kind of thing folks are learning at their local Tiger Schulman's. Also the political drama surrounding the split of Kyokushin has caused it to virtually disappear in most areas.

caminante 10y ago

I think you are over-selling the internet's contribution. The growth of MMA has been the real driver. I think you're talking past the parent comment. He's saying that the Internet shined a light and exposed "bullshido" martial arts. BJJ, muay thai, wrestling, and kickboxing didn't need an MMA forum to raise doubts. They needed visibility. The Internet makes the social proof easily accessible without having to buy a PPV, rent a DVD, or attend a fight. The exposure has correctly labeled many of these cultish martial arts for what they are -- ineffective combat systems. The sad part is that for a sizeable minority, it almost takes a Youtube intervention with many videos such as this one [0] to convince them that no amount of aikido training will let them mow through a wave of attackers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

JulianMorrison 10y ago
Some of them are nonsense. Some of them are a knife being used as a screwdriver. A duelling art is not a sport art is not a self-defense art.
- S_Daedalus 10y ago
  As an avid fencer, I couldn't agree more! My first instinct, trained into me for years with fencing has to do with scoring points on specific areas, in specific ways, not killing or surviving. It might look a little similar to the uninitiated, but it's basically night and day. Never mind that I've trained with little metal foils, sabers and epees, that probably weigh a fraction of a proper steel blade, I just wouldn't know what to do with it to literally save my life.
  - JulianMorrison 10y ago
    If you want to experience the difference, maybe look into any local HEMA groups. Full weight steel swords aren't all that heavy, especially if well balanced, but they have inertia and aren't whippy and flexible.
    - 10y ago

gambler 10y ago

Many people tend to forget that Gracies were partly responsible for organizing UFC1 and that self-promotion was very much the goal of their involvement.