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> Unlimited Lifetime Benefits is a pretty awesome term. I can only speak for Switzerland, but an educated guess is that this is the default just in about every

> Unlimited Lifetime Benefits is a pretty awesome term. I can only speak for Switzerland, but an educated guess is that this is the default just in about every European health insurance system. And no, you can't be denied (basic) insurance (which covers everything necessary) for a pre-existing condition.

peyton 10y ago
I'm an American who has lived in Switzerland. I don't wish to start a debate, but instead to mention that from my limited experience European and American systems have a different definition of "unlimited," and in online discussions this definitional difference seems to result in people talking past each other. The limits in many European systems appear to be on self-determination. There are real barriers in some circumstances to getting second and third and fourth opinions, additional tests, treatment for infants born premature before a certain week, novel and unproven procedures, etc. I don't know which healthcare model is preferable. It appears to me the US and European models grew under different historical circumstances and have different failure modes. Again, not trying to spark debate. Just contributing a personal perspective having lived on both sides.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  Note that in at least the UK, you can buy private coverage on top of your NHS coverage. You can access the NHS no matter what, for only your tax money - but you can also use whatever private provider you like. It's not particularly uncommon as a benefit.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Of course, worth noting that while you can opt out of using the NHS you can't opt out of paying for it. Which I'm personally OK with - especially as for many things private healthcare providers rely on the NHS (e.g. the consultant who treats you at a private hospital almost certainly has a "day job" at the NHS as was trained there).
    - pjc50 10y ago
      .. and in general private providers deal with the complicated uneconomic problematic cases by punting them back to the NHS. The state system is "insurer of last resort", insuring you against the failures of the private insurance system. I'm OK with it too (in fact have used it since my previous employer offered insurance, so why not) as long as people understand that it's a convenience for people for whom time is more important than money and who want to get prompt treatment for things that are important enough to stop you working but not enough to kill you.
      - arethuza 10y ago
        My teenage son had his tonsils taken out a couple of years back at a private UK hospital (under my work coverage) and after the operation the anesthetist came up to me and apologized and said there was an extra cost that (for some reason) wasn't covered under my insurance. Having heard all of the horror stories from the US I was quite worried until he eventually told me how much I had to pay extra - pretty sure it was £4.20. :-)
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Amazing. That's less than the meal I just ate in the cafeteria at the hospital (Chicago suburbs) where I'm waiting for my daughter to be born; for her birth, I was told my cost will be somewhere between $3k-$7k, but I won't know until the hospital has settled up with our insurance company.
        pjc50 10y ago
        Being charged to give birth is one of the things I find most incomprehensible about the US system :(
        arethuza 10y ago
        Well, that was a small additional charge. Not what the insurance cost - which I got through my previous job so not sure what it cost (NB I did pay tax on it, but wasn't a huge amount).
blablablame 10y ago
Speaking for Portugal, but just this month I'm battling with our provider since they are saying a condition that started 6 months ago didn't. Their doctors, without seeing my kid are saying the problem is more than 2 years old and thus a pre-existing condition. We are fighting this but they are (for now) refusing to pay for the surgery.
- CaptainZapp 10y ago
  This sucks so much. Insurers behaving in bad faith certainly don't only exist in the US. Best of luck to you and for your kid.
  - blablablame 10y ago
    Thank you. We are trying to get it sorted, but fortunately, we are at a place that even if they still refuse, we can afford the surgery. But what happened to us happens everyday to a bunch of folks that can't really afford to (or have to wait 6 to 12 months to get it using the national health service)

peyton 10y ago

I'm an American who has lived in Switzerland. I don't wish to start a debate, but instead to mention that from my limited experience European and American systems have a different definition of "unlimited," and in online discussions this definitional difference seems to result in people talking past each other. The limits in many European systems appear to be on self-determination. There are real barriers in some circumstances to getting second and third and fourth opinions, additional tests, treatment for infants born premature before a certain week, novel and unproven procedures, etc. I don't know which healthcare model is preferable. It appears to me the US and European models grew under different historical circumstances and have different failure modes. Again, not trying to spark debate. Just contributing a personal perspective having lived on both sides.

vertex-four 10y ago
Note that in at least the UK, you can buy private coverage on top of your NHS coverage. You can access the NHS no matter what, for only your tax money - but you can also use whatever private provider you like. It's not particularly uncommon as a benefit.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Of course, worth noting that while you can opt out of using the NHS you can't opt out of paying for it. Which I'm personally OK with - especially as for many things private healthcare providers rely on the NHS (e.g. the consultant who treats you at a private hospital almost certainly has a "day job" at the NHS as was trained there).
  - pjc50 10y ago
    .. and in general private providers deal with the complicated uneconomic problematic cases by punting them back to the NHS. The state system is "insurer of last resort", insuring you against the failures of the private insurance system. I'm OK with it too (in fact have used it since my previous employer offered insurance, so why not) as long as people understand that it's a convenience for people for whom time is more important than money and who want to get prompt treatment for things that are important enough to stop you working but not enough to kill you.
    - arethuza 10y ago
      My teenage son had his tonsils taken out a couple of years back at a private UK hospital (under my work coverage) and after the operation the anesthetist came up to me and apologized and said there was an extra cost that (for some reason) wasn't covered under my insurance. Having heard all of the horror stories from the US I was quite worried until he eventually told me how much I had to pay extra - pretty sure it was £4.20. :-)
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        Amazing. That's less than the meal I just ate in the cafeteria at the hospital (Chicago suburbs) where I'm waiting for my daughter to be born; for her birth, I was told my cost will be somewhere between $3k-$7k, but I won't know until the hospital has settled up with our insurance company.
        pjc50 10y ago
        Being charged to give birth is one of the things I find most incomprehensible about the US system :(
        arethuza 10y ago
        Well, that was a small additional charge. Not what the insurance cost - which I got through my previous job so not sure what it cost (NB I did pay tax on it, but wasn't a huge amount).

blablablame 10y ago

Speaking for Portugal, but just this month I'm battling with our provider since they are saying a condition that started 6 months ago didn't. Their doctors, without seeing my kid are saying the problem is more than 2 years old and thus a pre-existing condition. We are fighting this but they are (for now) refusing to pay for the surgery.

CaptainZapp 10y ago
This sucks so much. Insurers behaving in bad faith certainly don't only exist in the US. Best of luck to you and for your kid.
- blablablame 10y ago
  Thank you. We are trying to get it sorted, but fortunately, we are at a place that even if they still refuse, we can afford the surgery. But what happened to us happens everyday to a bunch of folks that can't really afford to (or have to wait 6 to 12 months to get it using the national health service)