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Pardon me while I go off on a bit of a rant. I've played with Vesper and it is a fine app. It is also the perfect example of the power of the web. There isn't

by mark242 10y ago

Pardon me while I go off on a bit of a rant. I've played with Vesper and it is a fine app. It is also the perfect example of the power of the web. There isn't anything that Vesper is doing that can't be done on the web. You could even write Vesper as a single-page app, and use a ServiceWorker with Firebase or PouchDB or whatever to run the sync. The infrastructure to do all this is very, very easy to do on the web. This is not rocket science-- this is how far the web has come in a very short time. The UI could absolutely be the same as the iOS native app and while you might have a bit of scrolling hesitation on the interface, it would be perfectly accessible. Suddenly you're on every mobile device, Android, iOS, iPad, desktop, whatever. The absolute hardest and most time-consuming endeavor would be to get the Stripe account set up for the one-time "in-app" payment to get sync working. John and Brent and Dave made a fine app in 2012, but I would certainly hope that the next Vesper starts out life as a web app.

archagon 10y ago
Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever used a web app that feels anywhere as good as a native app. You can feel it in every interaction. You say "a bit of scrolling hesitation". I say that... and janky button taps... and broken back/forward navigation... and browser chrome always getting in the way... and random divs constantly getting selected along with text... and mistakenly-tapped links taking me who-knows-where... etc. Plus: if the developer decides to shut down their web app, it's actually done, forever, with no recourse.
- mark242 10y ago
  What you're seeing are apps that aren't optimized for mobile. Once you start moving application logic, network IO, and anything that doesn't involve the DOM off the main rendering thread via a cached ServiceWorker, mobile web app performance jumps by an order of magnitude. Every single performance issue that you're talking about can be seen in native apps; check Twitter, for example, or Facebook. There is a definite lag there caused by the network sync being front-and-center. That's unavoidable, but for an app like Vesper where you're not looking at a huge data transfer, running the sync in the background is absolutely viable.
  - smilespray 10y ago
    Your "very, very easy" proposal just got a little more complex. For instance, ServiceWorkers only work in Chrome and Firefox, which means no iOS support for your web app. I currently work on a web app written with AngularJS and PouchDB. We're constantly facing issues that would have been easy to deal with in a native app. I'd argue it's just as hard writing a good web app as writing a good native app. It's just a different set of challenges.

by mark242 10y ago

archagon 10y ago

Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever used a web app that feels anywhere as good as a native app. You can feel it in every interaction. You say "a bit of scrolling hesitation". I say that... and janky button taps... and broken back/forward navigation... and browser chrome always getting in the way... and random divs constantly getting selected along with text... and mistakenly-tapped links taking me who-knows-where... etc. Plus: if the developer decides to shut down their web app, it's actually done, forever, with no recourse.

mark242 10y ago
What you're seeing are apps that aren't optimized for mobile. Once you start moving application logic, network IO, and anything that doesn't involve the DOM off the main rendering thread via a cached ServiceWorker, mobile web app performance jumps by an order of magnitude. Every single performance issue that you're talking about can be seen in native apps; check Twitter, for example, or Facebook. There is a definite lag there caused by the network sync being front-and-center. That's unavoidable, but for an app like Vesper where you're not looking at a huge data transfer, running the sync in the background is absolutely viable.
- smilespray 10y ago
  Your "very, very easy" proposal just got a little more complex. For instance, ServiceWorkers only work in Chrome and Firefox, which means no iOS support for your web app. I currently work on a web app written with AngularJS and PouchDB. We're constantly facing issues that would have been easy to deal with in a native app. I'd argue it's just as hard writing a good web app as writing a good native app. It's just a different set of challenges.