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>the sync server and the licensing fees for Ideal Sans, Vesper’s typeface. We’re losing money every month. Okay, what's the cost/benefit for buying a custom fo

>the sync server and the licensing fees for Ideal Sans, Vesper’s typeface. We’re losing money every month. Okay, what's the cost/benefit for buying a custom font for an app? I'd never even have considered it as something I should do.

rocky1138 10y ago
Honestly, I'm blown away that 1) people would pay monthly for a custom font and 2) that someone who loves their work so much would see their app close before scrapping the custom font to lower expenses in an effort to salvage the app. I feel like this is a statement about iOS development in general; that perceived design is more important than the continued functionality of an app. Or, maybe I'm just reading it wrong and the custom font was a one-time purchase.
- adamlett 10y ago
  someone who loves their work so much would see their app close before scrapping the custom font to lower expenses in an effort to salvage the app. I don't think that's strange at all. The look and feel of an app -- especially a simple tool like a notes app -- is a large part of what makes it valuable. There are many people who don't care, but they were never going to pay for an app in a category that has so many free alternatives. Those who are willing to pay are exactly the sort of customers who are delighted by the attention to detail that is exemplified by using a custom typeface.
- voltagex_ 10y ago
  No no, it's a monthly fee. I bet it's not small, either. But if it really makes the design that much better then it's probably worth it. I reckon that even if they removed the font and somehow reduced the syncing costs, it still wouldn't be worth it to keep the service running.
- jpalomaki 10y ago
  It makes more sense if you think it that way that the application is also a way for showing your skills as developer or designer. If you need to cut down on things you feel important and can't be proud of the work, then it might make more sense to just kill it.
phonon 10y ago
It's $299/y I think? http://www.typography.com/apps/ http://www.typography.com/apps/ http://www.typography.com/faq/category.php?topicID=17 http://www.typography.com/faq/category.php?topicID=17 If so, kind of surprising that's of an order of magnitude to be an issue.
muglug 10y ago
Depends totally on the licensing cost – some are very cheap, but anything from Hoefler & Co is going to be very expensive, probably prohibitively so.
allenu 10y ago
Having a custom sync server and a custom font are both surprising decisions to me. I suppose they both have to do with a certain design quality they wanted with the app. I'm not that familiar with the features of the app, but the reason I question the former is that the Day One journaling app has had a great sync model that uses Dropbox from the get-go. No custom server needed. For simple notes, it seems trivial to be able to piggyback on an existing file service like that. (I do note that their comments mention wanting to use iCloud but it not having everything they needed.) For fun, I'm writing my own task management app and I made sure to avoid my own cloud service just because I know I didn't want to pay or maintain it. The custom font decision is also interesting. They must've been fairly certain of their profitability level to go down that route.
- oarsinsync 10y ago
  > the Day One journaling app has had a great sync model that uses Dropbox from the get-go. No custom server needed. Agreed. Unfortunately, they're not the best example as they then withdrew the "Classic" app from all stores, and released a new app that forces to use their custom sync servers. They also include really misleading text about the nature of the encryption being used, and whether or not they can read your data. http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-sync-faq/ http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-sync-faq/ > In its currently available form, Day One Sync encrypts the data “at rest” on our servers and securely transfers the data from our servers to the Day One app (the same level of security that Dropbox and iCloud provide). Following our 2.0 release, our 2.1 update will provide full end-to-end encryption. Our encryption features will utilize the user’s private key to encrypt all entries before they reach the server. In short, the server will have no access to the user’s unencrypted data. Neither iCloud nor Dropbox currently provide this level of security (see: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 and https://www.dropbox.com/help/28 https://www.dropbox.com/help/28, respectively), thus making Day One Sync even more secure than these other sync/backup methods. Translation: We currently encrypt your data after you send it to us, so we can read it. We may offer pre-transmission local encryption in future, and only for our own service, and this makes our service superior to the alternatives that we could (but have chosen not to) offer this level of encryption for too. So yeah, they're a terrible example to use, unfortunately. Their original app was beautiful too. I didn't get around to buying the Mac app before they withdrew it, so my options are either manually extract my data, or risk giving them a copy (and pay them for the privilege). Massively disappointed in Day One.

rocky1138 10y ago

Honestly, I'm blown away that 1) people would pay monthly for a custom font and 2) that someone who loves their work so much would see their app close before scrapping the custom font to lower expenses in an effort to salvage the app. I feel like this is a statement about iOS development in general; that perceived design is more important than the continued functionality of an app. Or, maybe I'm just reading it wrong and the custom font was a one-time purchase.

adamlett 10y ago
someone who loves their work so much would see their app close before scrapping the custom font to lower expenses in an effort to salvage the app. I don't think that's strange at all. The look and feel of an app -- especially a simple tool like a notes app -- is a large part of what makes it valuable. There are many people who don't care, but they were never going to pay for an app in a category that has so many free alternatives. Those who are willing to pay are exactly the sort of customers who are delighted by the attention to detail that is exemplified by using a custom typeface.
voltagex_ 10y ago
No no, it's a monthly fee. I bet it's not small, either. But if it really makes the design that much better then it's probably worth it. I reckon that even if they removed the font and somehow reduced the syncing costs, it still wouldn't be worth it to keep the service running.
jpalomaki 10y ago
It makes more sense if you think it that way that the application is also a way for showing your skills as developer or designer. If you need to cut down on things you feel important and can't be proud of the work, then it might make more sense to just kill it.

phonon 10y ago

It's $299/y I think? http://www.typography.com/apps/ http://www.typography.com/apps/ http://www.typography.com/faq/category.php?topicID=17 http://www.typography.com/faq/category.php?topicID=17 If so, kind of surprising that's of an order of magnitude to be an issue.

muglug 10y ago

Depends totally on the licensing cost – some are very cheap, but anything from Hoefler & Co is going to be very expensive, probably prohibitively so.

allenu 10y ago

Having a custom sync server and a custom font are both surprising decisions to me. I suppose they both have to do with a certain design quality they wanted with the app. I'm not that familiar with the features of the app, but the reason I question the former is that the Day One journaling app has had a great sync model that uses Dropbox from the get-go. No custom server needed. For simple notes, it seems trivial to be able to piggyback on an existing file service like that. (I do note that their comments mention wanting to use iCloud but it not having everything they needed.) For fun, I'm writing my own task management app and I made sure to avoid my own cloud service just because I know I didn't want to pay or maintain it. The custom font decision is also interesting. They must've been fairly certain of their profitability level to go down that route.

oarsinsync 10y ago
> the Day One journaling app has had a great sync model that uses Dropbox from the get-go. No custom server needed. Agreed. Unfortunately, they're not the best example as they then withdrew the "Classic" app from all stores, and released a new app that forces to use their custom sync servers. They also include really misleading text about the nature of the encryption being used, and whether or not they can read your data. http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-sync-faq/ http://help.dayoneapp.com/day-one-sync-faq/ > In its currently available form, Day One Sync encrypts the data “at rest” on our servers and securely transfers the data from our servers to the Day One app (the same level of security that Dropbox and iCloud provide). Following our 2.0 release, our 2.1 update will provide full end-to-end encryption. Our encryption features will utilize the user’s private key to encrypt all entries before they reach the server. In short, the server will have no access to the user’s unencrypted data. Neither iCloud nor Dropbox currently provide this level of security (see: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 and https://www.dropbox.com/help/28 https://www.dropbox.com/help/28, respectively), thus making Day One Sync even more secure than these other sync/backup methods. Translation: We currently encrypt your data after you send it to us, so we can read it. We may offer pre-transmission local encryption in future, and only for our own service, and this makes our service superior to the alternatives that we could (but have chosen not to) offer this level of encryption for too. So yeah, they're a terrible example to use, unfortunately. Their original app was beautiful too. I didn't get around to buying the Mac app before they withdrew it, so my options are either manually extract my data, or risk giving them a copy (and pay them for the privilege). Massively disappointed in Day One.