5 ms·

Cheatings cheating doesn't matter who, what, where or how you play it. All games are bound by rules set for ALL players. No one gets to bend the rules of a ga

by calsy 10y ago

Cheatings cheating doesn't matter who, what, where or how you play it. All games are bound by rules set for ALL players. No one gets to bend the rules of a game because of their circumstance for e.g. 'I work all day, so I should have access to tools that give me an advantage over others'. Games are not an equal opportunity endeavour where everyone gets to be a winner. Those who play by the rules and practice (or grind) should be rewarded, those who cheat should be penalised, simple.

wonder_er 10y ago
This is fascinating to me. Your assessment is entirely defendable, yet in this situation I end up with the opposite assessment: "this is a make believe world with arbitrary rules - bend them as much as you can, because why not" >No one gets to bend the rules of a game because of their circumstance Again, I come to the opposite conclusion, that _because the rules are there_ they are fun to push, modify, bend, break. If you and I were having a conversation in just about any other context, most likely we would find so many areas in which we agree, and might even really enjoy the time spent. So, it's so funny to me that we might disagree so completely on something so foundational as rule-following behavior. Cheers!
- calsy 10y ago
  Its a matter of fair play. I can setup bots to create level 40 characters with high CP pokemon with just a few eggs, walking half as much as other users. Then I'll just take over gyms with my OP pokemon and say 'hey, bending the rules, all good'. In most people's eye that's just dirty play. Same with maps, they are third-party tools used to shortcut success. Yes, the tracking sucks in game (im sure it will improve soon), but that doesn't justify having tools that say 'rare pokemon over here' without performing the actual hunting aspect of the game. That is no different to bots. What's the fun in everyone having rare pokemon without earning them. I'm not dissing maps, Niantic might even make their own official version in the future. But when people cry foul when their preferred method of 'bending the rules' is removed, I don't have much pity for them.
  - Retra 10y ago
    But someone else could say the same to you: "But when people cry foul when their preferred method of 'following the rules' is removed, I don't have much pity for them." ...via 10M players leaving the game and putting the entire ecosystem at risk. The thing is, you're looking at this activity like 'success' is measurable within the game's rules rather than how satisfied people feel about playing the game in real life. This is a big difference between adults and children, by the way. All that prefrontal cortex development tends to push people into taking the value of their time into consideration even when they are playing games. They are not wrong to do so.
    - calsy 10y ago
      I don't know where you got the idea that 10M players left because maps were removed. Do you have proof of this? The most reasonable explanation for the drop in users is simply a tapering off after one of the most hyped game releases of all time. Correct me if im wrong, but i'm pretty sure there are still some 30M+ users active in the game.
  - SerLava 10y ago
    The difference here is that most games aren't absolutely awful without the cheats. There's also: -no way to get banned for using the cheat. -a very very low barrier to entry. -the cheat is directly replacing a bugged out, missing game mechanic. -the PvP advantage is minimal, only affecting a small portion of the game. Basically none of the classic problems with cheating are present here.
khedoros 10y ago
> No one gets to bend the rules of a game because of their circumstance Sure they do, and for any other reason that they want to. > Games are not an equal opportunity endeavour where everyone gets to be a winner. My point exactly. I still don't get to be a winner, because I don't have the time to put into it. But at least I get to enjoy the time that I have. > Those who play by the rules and practice (or grind) should be rewarded, those who cheat should be penalised, simple. "Should" perhaps being the operative word. "If wishes were fishes..." and all that. If it makes you feel better, there've been a lot of stories recently about those nasty, nasty GPS spoofers getting their accounts banned.
- calsy 10y ago
  I don't think breaking down someone's reply into bite sized snippets and responding to each out of context is a great way to do a rebuttal. Anyway, 'No one gets to bend the rules of a game' is the basic principle of fair play and sportsmanship. You dont have time so you want to circumvent progress quicker because you enjoy it more is not within the bounds of fair play. The GPS spoofing is certainly bending the rules, but the game allowed you to do that without penalty. Ask most players though and they will say it's unfair as it's a shortcut to success. Now that Niantic has come down on those GPS hacks, do I feel sorry for those people caught out, of course not. The maps issue is no different. It's like an athlete complaining that his favourite performance enhancing drug has recently be banned, well forgive me if I don't leap to his defence. Its not like the game is unforgiving to new players, it's very easy to level up in early stages and make good progress.
  - FeepingCreature 10y ago
    "No one gets to bend the rules" is the basic principle of fair play, which is what allows competitions to exist. But what I'm hearing is the people who are bending the rules are playing a completely different game, a noncompetetive game which is enabled by cheating, but good in its own right. And as opposed to multiplayer cheats, it's not good by making it worse for the other players; the cheats straight up enable an alternate playstyle that does not compete with the regular gameplay. It's like Tour de France players calling people with E-Bikes cheaters, even if they don't actually ride in the Tour de France. So all I can say is "well played, cheaters".

by calsy 10y ago

wonder_er 10y ago

This is fascinating to me. Your assessment is entirely defendable, yet in this situation I end up with the opposite assessment: "this is a make believe world with arbitrary rules - bend them as much as you can, because why not" >No one gets to bend the rules of a game because of their circumstance Again, I come to the opposite conclusion, that _because the rules are there_ they are fun to push, modify, bend, break. If you and I were having a conversation in just about any other context, most likely we would find so many areas in which we agree, and might even really enjoy the time spent. So, it's so funny to me that we might disagree so completely on something so foundational as rule-following behavior. Cheers!

calsy 10y ago
Its a matter of fair play. I can setup bots to create level 40 characters with high CP pokemon with just a few eggs, walking half as much as other users. Then I'll just take over gyms with my OP pokemon and say 'hey, bending the rules, all good'. In most people's eye that's just dirty play. Same with maps, they are third-party tools used to shortcut success. Yes, the tracking sucks in game (im sure it will improve soon), but that doesn't justify having tools that say 'rare pokemon over here' without performing the actual hunting aspect of the game. That is no different to bots. What's the fun in everyone having rare pokemon without earning them. I'm not dissing maps, Niantic might even make their own official version in the future. But when people cry foul when their preferred method of 'bending the rules' is removed, I don't have much pity for them.
- Retra 10y ago
  But someone else could say the same to you: "But when people cry foul when their preferred method of 'following the rules' is removed, I don't have much pity for them." ...via 10M players leaving the game and putting the entire ecosystem at risk. The thing is, you're looking at this activity like 'success' is measurable within the game's rules rather than how satisfied people feel about playing the game in real life. This is a big difference between adults and children, by the way. All that prefrontal cortex development tends to push people into taking the value of their time into consideration even when they are playing games. They are not wrong to do so.
  - calsy 10y ago
    I don't know where you got the idea that 10M players left because maps were removed. Do you have proof of this? The most reasonable explanation for the drop in users is simply a tapering off after one of the most hyped game releases of all time. Correct me if im wrong, but i'm pretty sure there are still some 30M+ users active in the game.
- SerLava 10y ago
  The difference here is that most games aren't absolutely awful without the cheats. There's also: -no way to get banned for using the cheat. -a very very low barrier to entry. -the cheat is directly replacing a bugged out, missing game mechanic. -the PvP advantage is minimal, only affecting a small portion of the game. Basically none of the classic problems with cheating are present here.

khedoros 10y ago

> No one gets to bend the rules of a game because of their circumstance Sure they do, and for any other reason that they want to. > Games are not an equal opportunity endeavour where everyone gets to be a winner. My point exactly. I still don't get to be a winner, because I don't have the time to put into it. But at least I get to enjoy the time that I have. > Those who play by the rules and practice (or grind) should be rewarded, those who cheat should be penalised, simple. "Should" perhaps being the operative word. "If wishes were fishes..." and all that. If it makes you feel better, there've been a lot of stories recently about those nasty, nasty GPS spoofers getting their accounts banned.

calsy 10y ago
I don't think breaking down someone's reply into bite sized snippets and responding to each out of context is a great way to do a rebuttal. Anyway, 'No one gets to bend the rules of a game' is the basic principle of fair play and sportsmanship. You dont have time so you want to circumvent progress quicker because you enjoy it more is not within the bounds of fair play. The GPS spoofing is certainly bending the rules, but the game allowed you to do that without penalty. Ask most players though and they will say it's unfair as it's a shortcut to success. Now that Niantic has come down on those GPS hacks, do I feel sorry for those people caught out, of course not. The maps issue is no different. It's like an athlete complaining that his favourite performance enhancing drug has recently be banned, well forgive me if I don't leap to his defence. Its not like the game is unforgiving to new players, it's very easy to level up in early stages and make good progress.
- FeepingCreature 10y ago
  "No one gets to bend the rules" is the basic principle of fair play, which is what allows competitions to exist. But what I'm hearing is the people who are bending the rules are playing a completely different game, a noncompetetive game which is enabled by cheating, but good in its own right. And as opposed to multiplayer cheats, it's not good by making it worse for the other players; the cheats straight up enable an alternate playstyle that does not compete with the regular gameplay. It's like Tour de France players calling people with E-Bikes cheaters, even if they don't actually ride in the Tour de France. So all I can say is "well played, cheaters".