4 ms·

I didn't while working on my PhD at Brown. They were actively hands-off about the tax implications of a stipend, telling new students nothing, and if asked, sa

I didn't while working on my PhD at Brown. They were actively hands-off about the tax implications of a stipend, telling new students nothing, and if asked, saying that it was the students' responsibility to figure it out. Difficult enough for me as a US citizen, probably hell for a foreign student on a visa. It's not clear that this ruling would force Brown and others to give W-2s or 1099s, but I hope it does because fuck them for ignoring students' legal needs.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
I did my PhD in Norway, where PhD students are considered employees. However, the university is foot-deep in have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too land. We had department heads, even heads of faculty, tell us in front of a hundred students that yes, you are expected to work more than the amount specified by law and your official contract. And no, you will not be paid overtime. And yes, you have to fill out a form saying when you will take your legally-mandated five weeks of holidays. But oh, no, we don't want you to actually take all those weeks as holidays, and no, you can't get a student bus card either, you're employees! Only good that came out of it for me was a bag full of ammo whenever someone in admin complained that I hadn't filled out some stupid paperwork or whatever. A short crass email pointing out their blatantly illegal public statements, together with the words "or I'll contact my union's free lawyer service" shut them up quicker than contact cement.
- Joky 10y ago
  I think in France it is more on the "best of both-side" in the sense that you're employee and student (you get a student card, with the associated benefit). I can have changed in the recent years though.
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    I'm sure details vary between countries and even universities. But for me, and I think essentially everyone, a fundamental part of being a PhD student is having to work long hours outside the applicable working time regulations. What is the point of promoting a group to employee status when everyone knows this group will be regularly violating the employee rights law (whether US, UK, EU etc.)?
    - Joky 10y ago
      For one, in France (as I remember...) it implies that the PhD is considered as "professional experience" (i.e. if you work for the government later you start as if you have 3y experience in the field), you contribute for you retirement, and you have a legal right to 5 weeks paid vacation.
mixedmath 10y ago
I find this very interesting. I'm currently a grad student at Brown, and I receive a W-2. I'm a Math PhD, and I teach a class each semester. I'm not sure how this would be different for others whose stipends come from grants or other sources of funding.
- colanderman 10y ago
  My experience was 8 years ago in the CS department and I did not teach.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> It's not clear that this ruling would force Brown and others to give W-2s or 1099s AFAIK, it would not, since status as an "employee" under the NLRA is not necessarily equivalent to status as employee (as opposed to a contractor) for tax purposes, so, insofar as tax status is concerned, this ruling doesn't do anything.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago

I did my PhD in Norway, where PhD students are considered employees. However, the university is foot-deep in have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too land. We had department heads, even heads of faculty, tell us in front of a hundred students that yes, you are expected to work more than the amount specified by law and your official contract. And no, you will not be paid overtime. And yes, you have to fill out a form saying when you will take your legally-mandated five weeks of holidays. But oh, no, we don't want you to actually take all those weeks as holidays, and no, you can't get a student bus card either, you're employees! Only good that came out of it for me was a bag full of ammo whenever someone in admin complained that I hadn't filled out some stupid paperwork or whatever. A short crass email pointing out their blatantly illegal public statements, together with the words "or I'll contact my union's free lawyer service" shut them up quicker than contact cement.

Joky 10y ago
I think in France it is more on the "best of both-side" in the sense that you're employee and student (you get a student card, with the associated benefit). I can have changed in the recent years though.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  I'm sure details vary between countries and even universities. But for me, and I think essentially everyone, a fundamental part of being a PhD student is having to work long hours outside the applicable working time regulations. What is the point of promoting a group to employee status when everyone knows this group will be regularly violating the employee rights law (whether US, UK, EU etc.)?
  - Joky 10y ago
    For one, in France (as I remember...) it implies that the PhD is considered as "professional experience" (i.e. if you work for the government later you start as if you have 3y experience in the field), you contribute for you retirement, and you have a legal right to 5 weeks paid vacation.

mixedmath 10y ago

I find this very interesting. I'm currently a grad student at Brown, and I receive a W-2. I'm a Math PhD, and I teach a class each semester. I'm not sure how this would be different for others whose stipends come from grants or other sources of funding.

colanderman 10y ago
My experience was 8 years ago in the CS department and I did not teach.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> It's not clear that this ruling would force Brown and others to give W-2s or 1099s AFAIK, it would not, since status as an "employee" under the NLRA is not necessarily equivalent to status as employee (as opposed to a contractor) for tax purposes, so, insofar as tax status is concerned, this ruling doesn't do anything.