4 ms·

Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own thoughts, for

Biases, prejudices and so on are subtle and take a while to unlearn. If you want to get rid of them, you essentially have to interrogate your own thoughts, for better or worse. If you're not conscious of a bias, you can't get rid of it. It doesn't suck the fun out of life.

FreedomToCreate 10y ago
That is assuming a bias is completely a bad thing. The human brain as evolved many heuristics to help it lower cognitive load and get things done faster. As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes, but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  > As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes Yes. Sometimes those bad outcomes are pernicious, and you may want to limit their effects. > but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. Why would it be so? Sure, you can't make yourself completely unbiased and lacking in prejudice. But you can try to be more aware of how you act in different situations so that biases you consider unhelpful have less of an influence. > The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. What?
  - johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
    >> The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. >What? I think what is meant is that your analysis of people is different when they say the "right" things. The wife-murdering Earth Day founder comes to mind. As Dag Hammarsköld said: It is much more difficult to care about those close to you than those far away. I have seen plenty of people that use implicit accusations as a means of getting ahead. White, "angry", old men is a term that's been popular lately - I will use that as an example. Are all old, white men "angry"? Are only the old, white men that disagree with the speaker "angry"? Are old, white men angrier than old men in general? Than old, white women? Than <colour> [menopausal|child-caring|single] women? Is there some skew in who brings their opinions to market? In who is heard? I say that the people that the most seductively claim some one is biased, are those most likely to sweep their own biases under the rug. Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness". It seems more work, but it truly brings greater rewards to you and the people you deal with. Trying to be "unbiased" leads to exactly zero good, because it isn't how the human mind functions. I will put my own family before the stranger on the street. That doesn't mean I won't help the stranger on the street that I _see_ needs it. I need a functioning mind for that, and this college nonsense about bias is something I had to unlearn to do so, as it leads to cowardice at the hint of personal danger or embarrassment. (Unless, of course, you dont't perceive a real threat, but just some poor sod you can lecture about how morally superior you are.) [EDIT: Spelling]
    - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
      > Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness". I'm not seeking a mythical state of being unbiased. I'd say it's more like what you say, trying to be consciously fair. I'm aware that I'm likely to be prejudiced against certain kinds of people, so I try my hardest to be fair when I deal with them.
      - johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
        Knowledge is key to this, but it's not enough. Some people will try to fool you, and then knowledge will help you decide whether that is the case. It may be a cultural thing you haven't picked up on. If I came across a case of taharrush gamea, Heaven help me. I believe I would turn out a killer. If I came across some guy not being able to tell me he's late with a delivery; I understand it, but to him it's a loss of face? Of course I try to help. I can't believe defending those in an exposed situation is a bad thing. The thing is: One has to be able to trust oneself without some sort of nonsensical, theoreticsl framework.
justinlardinois 10y ago
I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings. But you're spot on. It's difficult to unlearn something that you never knew you were learning in the first place, because you just take it as fact or how the world is. Confronting your own biases is uncomfortable, but it's well worth it, for it makes you a better person and helps you interact with the world in a more positive way. Besides, having your worldview shaken up and challenged is good for you; that's the best way to learn.
- TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
  > I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings. It's funny to me, since I do, to some extent, try to recognise my prejudices in my thoughts, but it's not been a problem for me. Whereas I actually have had problems with worrying about whether my thoughts and feelings are “right” in the sense that the OP is talking about.
pjc50 10y ago
Depends on who you are. Excessive interrogation of your own behaviour can be a crippling anxiety disorder.
- duaneb 10y ago
  Sure. Lack of awareness is even worse.
  - ShroudedNight 10y ago
    By what objective standard do you make this claim? As it stands, your comment comes across as flippantly disrespectful and totally void of empathy for those who's lives are actively and continuously harmed by that sort of anxiety; that such anxiety is a perfectly acceptable externality in the process of achieving some theoretically perfect lack of bias.
    - duaneb 10y ago
      The middle ground is obviously ideal. some anxiety about your behavior is necessary to be a person anyone wants to spend time with, much less work with. I'd rather be an anxious person (as anyone know knows me will attest I am) than a person nobody wants to be around. There's no panacea for "correct level of self-awareness".
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

FreedomToCreate 10y ago

That is assuming a bias is completely a bad thing. The human brain as evolved many heuristics to help it lower cognitive load and get things done faster. As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes, but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> As with anything, this can have good and bad outcomes Yes. Sometimes those bad outcomes are pernicious, and you may want to limit their effects. > but trying to make yourself unbiased is ridiculous and non-sensical. Why would it be so? Sure, you can't make yourself completely unbiased and lacking in prejudice. But you can try to be more aware of how you act in different situations so that biases you consider unhelpful have less of an influence. > The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. What?
- johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
  >> The fact that you want to be unbiased makes you biased for information and people you think are unbiased. >What? I think what is meant is that your analysis of people is different when they say the "right" things. The wife-murdering Earth Day founder comes to mind. As Dag Hammarsköld said: It is much more difficult to care about those close to you than those far away. I have seen plenty of people that use implicit accusations as a means of getting ahead. White, "angry", old men is a term that's been popular lately - I will use that as an example. Are all old, white men "angry"? Are only the old, white men that disagree with the speaker "angry"? Are old, white men angrier than old men in general? Than old, white women? Than <colour> [menopausal|child-caring|single] women? Is there some skew in who brings their opinions to market? In who is heard? I say that the people that the most seductively claim some one is biased, are those most likely to sweep their own biases under the rug. Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness". It seems more work, but it truly brings greater rewards to you and the people you deal with. Trying to be "unbiased" leads to exactly zero good, because it isn't how the human mind functions. I will put my own family before the stranger on the street. That doesn't mean I won't help the stranger on the street that I _see_ needs it. I need a functioning mind for that, and this college nonsense about bias is something I had to unlearn to do so, as it leads to cowardice at the hint of personal danger or embarrassment. (Unless, of course, you dont't perceive a real threat, but just some poor sod you can lecture about how morally superior you are.) [EDIT: Spelling]
  - TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
    > Furthermore, I claim it is a much better goal to be consciously fair in one's dealings, than to seek some mythical state of "biased-less-ness". I'm not seeking a mythical state of being unbiased. I'd say it's more like what you say, trying to be consciously fair. I'm aware that I'm likely to be prejudiced against certain kinds of people, so I try my hardest to be fair when I deal with them.
    - johnnyhillbilly 10y ago
      Knowledge is key to this, but it's not enough. Some people will try to fool you, and then knowledge will help you decide whether that is the case. It may be a cultural thing you haven't picked up on. If I came across a case of taharrush gamea, Heaven help me. I believe I would turn out a killer. If I came across some guy not being able to tell me he's late with a delivery; I understand it, but to him it's a loss of face? Of course I try to help. I can't believe defending those in an exposed situation is a bad thing. The thing is: One has to be able to trust oneself without some sort of nonsensical, theoreticsl framework.

justinlardinois 10y ago

I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings. But you're spot on. It's difficult to unlearn something that you never knew you were learning in the first place, because you just take it as fact or how the world is. Confronting your own biases is uncomfortable, but it's well worth it, for it makes you a better person and helps you interact with the world in a more positive way. Besides, having your worldview shaken up and challenged is good for you; that's the best way to learn.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> I'm not sure how your parent even jumped to talking about "political correctness" in the first place, since that's not at all what the article meant by "right" thoughts and feelings. It's funny to me, since I do, to some extent, try to recognise my prejudices in my thoughts, but it's not been a problem for me. Whereas I actually have had problems with worrying about whether my thoughts and feelings are “right” in the sense that the OP is talking about.

pjc50 10y ago

Depends on who you are. Excessive interrogation of your own behaviour can be a crippling anxiety disorder.

duaneb 10y ago
Sure. Lack of awareness is even worse.
- ShroudedNight 10y ago
  By what objective standard do you make this claim? As it stands, your comment comes across as flippantly disrespectful and totally void of empathy for those who's lives are actively and continuously harmed by that sort of anxiety; that such anxiety is a perfectly acceptable externality in the process of achieving some theoretically perfect lack of bias.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    The middle ground is obviously ideal. some anxiety about your behavior is necessary to be a person anyone wants to spend time with, much less work with. I'd rather be an anxious person (as anyone know knows me will attest I am) than a person nobody wants to be around. There's no panacea for "correct level of self-awareness".

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]