9 ms·

Why do people on meth enjoy cleaning? There is little difference between meth and Adderall. Taking any type of stimulant even coffee helps people do menial ta

by engx 10y ago

Why do people on meth enjoy cleaning? There is little difference between meth and Adderall. Taking any type of stimulant even coffee helps people do menial tasks and be more optimistic while doing them. Maybe millions of people are effected by some problem of distraction and lack of focus. But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me. Drugs do work. If you want to take amphetamines to improve your work performance, go for it. But to suggest that it's a disease seems disingenuous. There's something like 16 million Americans who take Adderall, which has drastically increased in used (300%+ from 2008-2012). Another poll said 35% of college students had said they'd tried Adderall. The science of ADHD is ambiguous. The science of moderate uses of amphetamine or methamphetamines for improving work performance is easier to understand.

leereeves 10y ago
> But to suggest that it's a disease seems disingenuous. That allows (at least) two things: pressuring insurance companies to pay for treatment, and pressuring students to undergo treatment.
sneak 10y ago
> There is little difference between meth and Adderall. I posit that you don't yet know enough about neuropharmacology to have beneficial opinions on this topic.
- dustinls 10y ago
  There is little difference between water and hydrogen peroxide.
PhasmaFelis 10y ago
Imagine this: you're an adult professional, sitting at your desk looking at a freelance work assignment that needs to be done by tomorrow, weeping with frustration because you've been staring at it for eight solid hours, trying and trying to begin, and you can't because focusing on anything important is like trying to grip a handful of water. Because you ran out of your meds. This is what my life is like. If that doesn't sound like a medical condition to you, then I don't know what you're thinking. If you think I haven't tried everything else imaginable to deal with it, you're mistaken. The only thing that works is amphetamines. There's definitely downsides, and if someone showed me a better solution I'd love to try it. But, so far, there isn't one. Maybe some people take the meds who don't really need them. That's a shame. You don't get to sacrifice my career just to keep some people from getting high.
- sseal 10y ago
  three things: 1. You do not enjoy your work, and thus have no motivation. 2. Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. 3. You have built a mental dependency that you must take amphetamines to "focus", and this hinders your real ability to focus. All of those things ^^^ I have experienced at one point or another in my life. You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not need medication... But maybe you do, I highly doubt it though.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    > Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. I've done that. A lot. It sucks. That's why I take medication. > You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not need medication... I don't understand why people can't quite believe that mental illness is real. You would never tell a diabetic or an asthmatic that they shouldn't have to take medicine every day. But if someone's clinically depressed, or has ADD, or any of a hundred other mental conditions, people just assume you're imagining things or being lazy.
    - wvenable 10y ago
      It is hereditary too. I've seen how in past generations, children with these kind of conditions were just labeled as trouble makers and got no help and eventually failed out the system. Just simple understanding and acceptance that this is a condition, medication or not, makes a huge difference. And yet here we are still arguing it.
  - joshuata 10y ago
    I have struggled with ADHD for my entire life. I don't think you realize how it can affect you. I started to take medication after nearly failing out of college. It was physically impossible for me to study for more than 40 minutes; I would fall asleep no matter where I was. It was not a matter of motivation or dedication. I was hitting a physical barrier that I could get around any other way. I agree that there is over-diagnosis is a problem, but especially as a person who came around to medication as a last resort, it is very offensive to say that I don't need it. I avoided it for years, but within a few months I was able to use all of the strategies I had learned, coupled with the meds, to seriously turn my life around. I went from academic probation (GPA in the 2.2 range) to top of my classes with about 15 mg of adderall a day. I've tried placebos, I've tried therapy, but I would not be able to do the work I do today without drugs.
anexprogrammer 10y ago
16 million Americans seems to correlate fairly well with the medical consensus that around 5% of adults have some degree of ADHD. Perhaps it's not as widely over-diagnosed as sometimes claimed? " But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me." A pseudo science that very strongly runs in families. A pseudo science that's strongly linked with dopamine transmission. A pseudo science that has some medical evidence pointing to it being an under development of the frontal lobes. I suggest you google the field a little.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cryoshon 10y ago
okay well lets delve into the science here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489770 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489770 "Quantifying patterns of brain activity: Distinguishing unaffected siblings from participants with ADHD and healthy individuals." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471442 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471442 "Neural Biomarkers for Dyslexia, ADHD, and ADD in the Auditory Cortex of Children." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422412 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422412 "Network Structure among Brain Systems in Adult ADHD is Uniquely Modified by Stimulant Administration." as you can see there is no ambiguity that ADHD is a biochemical and neural network-grounded disorder backed by a galaxy of studies. the sad fact is that stimulants don't work for up to 20% of people with ADHD, dooming them to dysfunction. and yes, the pharmas are greedy, and promote overdiagnosis. and yes, modern life promotes ADHD-like symptoms-- but the whole point of ADHD is that it's a priori relative to life experience.
theaustinseven 10y ago
I think you are being a bit dismissive of what is a widely accepted mental disability[1][2][3][4][5]. If you want to spout some nonsense about how you feel about the field, that's fine, but note that you are falling into the same category of people that don't believe in climate change because winter was "pretty cold". It just so turns out that the world is not all about you, and while it may be difficult to understand that this may be a real issue for some people, you shouldn't say that this is a substance abuse problem. To say that is at the very least ignorant. [1]: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/121/1/65/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/121/1/65/ [2]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709626125 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709... [3]: http://www.mednet.org.uy/~spu/wp/WPA_2_2003.pdf#page=42 http://www.mednet.org.uy/~spu/wp/WPA_2_2003.pdf#page=42 [4]: http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2000-00431-006 http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2000-00431-006 [5]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760406001549 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760406...
joshuak 10y ago
This is FUD. ADHD is well researched, and well understood by those who study it. The problem is that people think ADHD is just an issue of self discipline or attentiveness. It is not. It is a serious disorder with serious effects that are unambiguous. No doubt there are stimulant seeking people who claim to have ADHD to get stimulants, and people without ADHD representing that they have ADHD may lead to the impression that the disorder is ambiguous when it isn't. Also if someone has ADHD for long periods of time they may have co-mobidity with other disorders such as depression, etc. and this also may muddy perceptions. ADHD is not strictly an attention issue. It's named for attention because that is an early and obvious symptom but it is much worse then that. Calling the disorder an attention deficit disorder has turned out to be very bad as it leads people to the wrong mental model of the disorder. Thinking that it's just laziness on the part of the patent or the patents parents, in the case of children. This is a tragically misguided perception, based in ignorance and the poor choice of names. In actuality ADHD is a developmental disorder that is a more general impairment of executive function that includes regulation of emotion, working memory and the internal perception of time and other effects in addition to inattentiveness. This impairment is due to abnormal dopamine transport that can be clearly observed in MRI studies. These studies have been repeated many times in many contexts, with various controls, and been thoroughly confirmed. Also, you are wrong about Adderall. There is a significant difference between meth and Adderall. Stimulants are by for the best understood, most tested, longest used, and lowest risk medications in psychotherapy. Only a few stimulants show clinical improvement in the function of people with ADHD, and the improvement can be profound. Caffeine for example does not show these clinical improvements. So basically you know jack shit about this topic, and therefore should keep quite, just like any other medical condition you know nothing about. It actually causes harm by interfering with the dissemination of reliable information in the study and treatment of a very serious disorder. For better (read: actual) information start here: Here: https://youtu.be/GR1IZJXc6d8 https://youtu.be/GR1IZJXc6d8 Or for a more complete talk: Here: https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo

by engx 10y ago

leereeves 10y ago

> But to suggest that it's a disease seems disingenuous. That allows (at least) two things: pressuring insurance companies to pay for treatment, and pressuring students to undergo treatment.

sneak 10y ago

> There is little difference between meth and Adderall. I posit that you don't yet know enough about neuropharmacology to have beneficial opinions on this topic.

dustinls 10y ago
There is little difference between water and hydrogen peroxide.

PhasmaFelis 10y ago

Imagine this: you're an adult professional, sitting at your desk looking at a freelance work assignment that needs to be done by tomorrow, weeping with frustration because you've been staring at it for eight solid hours, trying and trying to begin, and you can't because focusing on anything important is like trying to grip a handful of water. Because you ran out of your meds. This is what my life is like. If that doesn't sound like a medical condition to you, then I don't know what you're thinking. If you think I haven't tried everything else imaginable to deal with it, you're mistaken. The only thing that works is amphetamines. There's definitely downsides, and if someone showed me a better solution I'd love to try it. But, so far, there isn't one. Maybe some people take the meds who don't really need them. That's a shame. You don't get to sacrifice my career just to keep some people from getting high.

sseal 10y ago
three things: 1. You do not enjoy your work, and thus have no motivation. 2. Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. 3. You have built a mental dependency that you must take amphetamines to "focus", and this hinders your real ability to focus. All of those things ^^^ I have experienced at one point or another in my life. You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not need medication... But maybe you do, I highly doubt it though.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  > Maybe you should not do the work and suffer the consequences. I've done that. A lot. It sucks. That's why I take medication. > You can focus, you have to make yourself. There is no other way. You do not need medication... I don't understand why people can't quite believe that mental illness is real. You would never tell a diabetic or an asthmatic that they shouldn't have to take medicine every day. But if someone's clinically depressed, or has ADD, or any of a hundred other mental conditions, people just assume you're imagining things or being lazy.
  - wvenable 10y ago
    It is hereditary too. I've seen how in past generations, children with these kind of conditions were just labeled as trouble makers and got no help and eventually failed out the system. Just simple understanding and acceptance that this is a condition, medication or not, makes a huge difference. And yet here we are still arguing it.
- joshuata 10y ago
  I have struggled with ADHD for my entire life. I don't think you realize how it can affect you. I started to take medication after nearly failing out of college. It was physically impossible for me to study for more than 40 minutes; I would fall asleep no matter where I was. It was not a matter of motivation or dedication. I was hitting a physical barrier that I could get around any other way. I agree that there is over-diagnosis is a problem, but especially as a person who came around to medication as a last resort, it is very offensive to say that I don't need it. I avoided it for years, but within a few months I was able to use all of the strategies I had learned, coupled with the meds, to seriously turn my life around. I went from academic probation (GPA in the 2.2 range) to top of my classes with about 15 mg of adderall a day. I've tried placebos, I've tried therapy, but I would not be able to do the work I do today without drugs.

anexprogrammer 10y ago

16 million Americans seems to correlate fairly well with the medical consensus that around 5% of adults have some degree of ADHD. Perhaps it's not as widely over-diagnosed as sometimes claimed? " But to suggest there's some biochemical reason for this that's cured by amphetamines seems like pseudoscience to me." A pseudo science that very strongly runs in families. A pseudo science that's strongly linked with dopamine transmission. A pseudo science that has some medical evidence pointing to it being an under development of the frontal lobes. I suggest you google the field a little.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cryoshon 10y ago

okay well lets delve into the science here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489770 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27489770 "Quantifying patterns of brain activity: Distinguishing unaffected siblings from participants with ADHD and healthy individuals." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471442 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27471442 "Neural Biomarkers for Dyslexia, ADHD, and ADD in the Auditory Cortex of Children." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422412 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27422412 "Network Structure among Brain Systems in Adult ADHD is Uniquely Modified by Stimulant Administration." as you can see there is no ambiguity that ADHD is a biochemical and neural network-grounded disorder backed by a galaxy of studies. the sad fact is that stimulants don't work for up to 20% of people with ADHD, dooming them to dysfunction. and yes, the pharmas are greedy, and promote overdiagnosis. and yes, modern life promotes ADHD-like symptoms-- but the whole point of ADHD is that it's a priori relative to life experience.

theaustinseven 10y ago

I think you are being a bit dismissive of what is a widely accepted mental disability[1][2][3][4][5]. If you want to spout some nonsense about how you feel about the field, that's fine, but note that you are falling into the same category of people that don't believe in climate change because winter was "pretty cold". It just so turns out that the world is not all about you, and while it may be difficult to understand that this may be a real issue for some people, you shouldn't say that this is a substance abuse problem. To say that is at the very least ignorant. [1]: http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/121/1/65/ http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/121/1/65/ [2]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709626125 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0890856709... [3]: http://www.mednet.org.uy/~spu/wp/WPA_2_2003.pdf#page=42 http://www.mednet.org.uy/~spu/wp/WPA_2_2003.pdf#page=42 [4]: http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2000-00431-006 http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2000-00431-006 [5]: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760406001549 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760406...

joshuak 10y ago

This is FUD. ADHD is well researched, and well understood by those who study it. The problem is that people think ADHD is just an issue of self discipline or attentiveness. It is not. It is a serious disorder with serious effects that are unambiguous. No doubt there are stimulant seeking people who claim to have ADHD to get stimulants, and people without ADHD representing that they have ADHD may lead to the impression that the disorder is ambiguous when it isn't. Also if someone has ADHD for long periods of time they may have co-mobidity with other disorders such as depression, etc. and this also may muddy perceptions. ADHD is not strictly an attention issue. It's named for attention because that is an early and obvious symptom but it is much worse then that. Calling the disorder an attention deficit disorder has turned out to be very bad as it leads people to the wrong mental model of the disorder. Thinking that it's just laziness on the part of the patent or the patents parents, in the case of children. This is a tragically misguided perception, based in ignorance and the poor choice of names. In actuality ADHD is a developmental disorder that is a more general impairment of executive function that includes regulation of emotion, working memory and the internal perception of time and other effects in addition to inattentiveness. This impairment is due to abnormal dopamine transport that can be clearly observed in MRI studies. These studies have been repeated many times in many contexts, with various controls, and been thoroughly confirmed. Also, you are wrong about Adderall. There is a significant difference between meth and Adderall. Stimulants are by for the best understood, most tested, longest used, and lowest risk medications in psychotherapy. Only a few stimulants show clinical improvement in the function of people with ADHD, and the improvement can be profound. Caffeine for example does not show these clinical improvements. So basically you know jack shit about this topic, and therefore should keep quite, just like any other medical condition you know nothing about. It actually causes harm by interfering with the dissemination of reliable information in the study and treatment of a very serious disorder. For better (read: actual) information start here: Here: https://youtu.be/GR1IZJXc6d8 https://youtu.be/GR1IZJXc6d8 Or for a more complete talk: Here: https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo https://youtu.be/SCAGc-rkIfo