4 ms·

Anybody can criticize a language or platform, but it doesn't mean much if there aren't any better alternatives. This article presents an extreme conclusion wit

Anybody can criticize a language or platform, but it doesn't mean much if there aren't any better alternatives. This article presents an extreme conclusion without much supporting evidence, so it's pretty pathetic that this made the front page. Nobody even uses callbacks anymore now that we have Promise and async/await. Yes, Javascript isn't the best language (though ES6 improves tremendously on ES5). But right now it's the only language you can use in the browser (aside from languages like Clojurescript that compile to Javascript). The biggest advantage of Node.js is that you can reuse the same code on the client and server, and thus it's ideal for creating universal single-page web apps. Being able to reuse the same code on the client and server is a massive advantage that can't be understated. Also, Node.js with Nginx is more scalable out of the box than Ruby on Rails, Python/Django, PHP, etc. Hell it's comparable to Java, which is incredible for a dynamic language. The difference is, you can write a Node.js web application 10x faster than the equivalent application in Java, and with a drastically smaller codebase (less code = less code to maintain). These days developer time is the biggest cost. These rants come off as coming from either (1) back-end developers who never touch UI code or anything on the client-side (not where Node.js thrives) (2) armchair commentators who don't actually have to get shit done in terms of building and deploying web apps on deadlines, and thus have the luxury of criticizing everything without presenting realistic alternatives. > "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -Bjarne Stroustrup

funksta 10y ago
> Nobody even uses callbacks anymore now that we have Promise and async/await. Sadly this is not true (yet)
ewzimm 10y ago
I agree with most of your saying, but the second rant is by Ryan Dahl, creator of Node.js. Often these rants come from people who are very competent and know what they're talking about, but anybody can get burned out by working too much, and the annoyances of flaws can become overwhelming. It's worth remembering that we can always iterate and improve on what we have, even if it's good enough, if nothing else than for the sanity of the people who have to work on cleaning it up later.
ramblenode 10y ago
> These rants come off as coming from either (1) back-end developers who never touch UI code or anything on the client-side (not where Node.js thrives) (2) armchair commentators who don't actually have to get shit done Half this post is from the creator of Node.js
imagist 10y ago
> he biggest advantage of Node.js is that you can reuse the same code on the client and server, and thus it's ideal for creating universal single-page web apps. Being able to reuse the same code on the client and server is a massive advantage that can't be understated. This advantage is totally overblown, and in fact I am not sure it even is an advantage. It definitely makes things easier in the short run, but it always comes around to bite you in the ass. The fact is, objects on the server and objects on the client are different things, and while you write less code up-front because the differences aren't always immediately obvious, you end up writing a lot more code later because you didn't think about the very important differences. Representing them as the same thing enables shoddy programmers to not think about the context of where their code will be run. > "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -Bjarne Stroustrup "[A] quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself, always a laborious business." -- A. A. Milne
- taternuts 10y ago
  I think this is right on. They are completely different environments and I can't imagine very many instances where you'll be able to write a generic function you really want on both front and back end. I certainly haven't run into any in real life
  - akamaozu 10y ago
    I think a good example of a function you'd want in the front and back end is one that takes data and outputs a template.
    - imagist 10y ago
      sigh I'm afraid to hear your answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: what would compel you to output the same template on both the client and server sides?
      - 15155 10y ago
specialist 10y ago
It wasn't so long ago that critics of XML etc were shouted down, mocked, dismissed. Then every one just kinda woke up. It's not even a debate.
soulbadguy 10y ago
> Also, Node.js with Nginx is more scalable out of the box than Ruby on Rails, Python/Django, PHP, etc. Hell it's comparable to Java, which is incredible for a dynamic language. Citation or link to any benchmarks ? > The difference is, you can write a Node.js web application 10x faster than the equivalent application in Java, and with a drastically smaller codebase Building a prototype, maybe; But's it's hard to believe that Node.js give a 10x boost in programmer productivity in the long run. The recent success of typescript is an indication of the limit of dynamic languages for big projects

funksta 10y ago

> Nobody even uses callbacks anymore now that we have Promise and async/await. Sadly this is not true (yet)

ewzimm 10y ago

I agree with most of your saying, but the second rant is by Ryan Dahl, creator of Node.js. Often these rants come from people who are very competent and know what they're talking about, but anybody can get burned out by working too much, and the annoyances of flaws can become overwhelming. It's worth remembering that we can always iterate and improve on what we have, even if it's good enough, if nothing else than for the sanity of the people who have to work on cleaning it up later.

ramblenode 10y ago

> These rants come off as coming from either (1) back-end developers who never touch UI code or anything on the client-side (not where Node.js thrives) (2) armchair commentators who don't actually have to get shit done Half this post is from the creator of Node.js

imagist 10y ago

> he biggest advantage of Node.js is that you can reuse the same code on the client and server, and thus it's ideal for creating universal single-page web apps. Being able to reuse the same code on the client and server is a massive advantage that can't be understated. This advantage is totally overblown, and in fact I am not sure it even is an advantage. It definitely makes things easier in the short run, but it always comes around to bite you in the ass. The fact is, objects on the server and objects on the client are different things, and while you write less code up-front because the differences aren't always immediately obvious, you end up writing a lot more code later because you didn't think about the very important differences. Representing them as the same thing enables shoddy programmers to not think about the context of where their code will be run. > "There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses." -Bjarne Stroustrup "[A] quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself, always a laborious business." -- A. A. Milne

taternuts 10y ago
I think this is right on. They are completely different environments and I can't imagine very many instances where you'll be able to write a generic function you really want on both front and back end. I certainly haven't run into any in real life
- akamaozu 10y ago
  I think a good example of a function you'd want in the front and back end is one that takes data and outputs a template.
  - imagist 10y ago
    sigh I'm afraid to hear your answer, but I'm going to ask anyway: what would compel you to output the same template on both the client and server sides?
    - 15155 10y ago

specialist 10y ago

It wasn't so long ago that critics of XML etc were shouted down, mocked, dismissed. Then every one just kinda woke up. It's not even a debate.

soulbadguy 10y ago

> Also, Node.js with Nginx is more scalable out of the box than Ruby on Rails, Python/Django, PHP, etc. Hell it's comparable to Java, which is incredible for a dynamic language. Citation or link to any benchmarks ? > The difference is, you can write a Node.js web application 10x faster than the equivalent application in Java, and with a drastically smaller codebase Building a prototype, maybe; But's it's hard to believe that Node.js give a 10x boost in programmer productivity in the long run. The recent success of typescript is an indication of the limit of dynamic languages for big projects