4 ms·

Sometimes I wonder if a higher learning curve isn't a feature. If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, then a code

Sometimes I wonder if a higher learning curve isn't a feature. If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, then a code-base that uses that language automatically signals higher general aptitude of the programmer. Could a language be "better" simply by being harder to learn?

chriswarbo 10y ago
Hello world in PHP: <? print("hello world") Hello world in Haskell: main = print "hello world" You don't even need the "main = " if you're using a REPL :)
- noonespecial 10y ago
  "Php was already on my system. I cut and pasted a index.php from google and it worked! Now I have a website! ... What the #$^@ is cabal?"
- kazinator 10y ago
  Apples and oranges. What is hello-world in Haskell such that it is embedded into a page that you load out of Apache?
  - dllthomas 10y ago
    > What is hello-world in Haskell such that it is embedded into a page that you load out of Apache? With apache configured to run the program as a CGI script? Still the same thing. That's not a great way to run Haskell on the web, but it's not too far from what's going on with historically common out-of-the-box PHP setups (and I understand that modern PHP setups take a little more code).
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
maxxxxx 10y ago
No. You will find idiots in every language. C++ is hard to learn and you can do great stuff if you knew what you are doing but there are also plenty of people who create memory leaks left and right.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, But, no matter how complex the language is, it doesn't, unless "hello world" becomes incredibly platform, context, and (e.g.) day-of-the-motnh-on-which-it-is-compiled sensitive. Because, otherwise, it may take the first person some competence to "hello world", but everyone else can get by with copypasta and memorization.
VLM 10y ago
As a counterexample to the theory that incomprehensibility equals superiority, fizzbuzz java https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/FizzBuzz/Java https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/FizzBuzz/Java vs fizzbuzz Enterprise java https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... Enterprise style java is not inherently bad, anyway. Its ideal for padding hours of government cost plus contracts, or megacorporation initiatives that'll be scrapped before deployment anyway.
chriswarbo 10y ago
> If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, then a code-base that uses that language automatically signals higher general aptitude of the programmer. There is a competing force though: if a language is flat out difficult to use, then much of the programmer's ability will be spent getting the damned thing to work. Passing the ACID3 test suite with a browser written by hand entirely in Brainfuck is a clear indication of a highly skilled programmer. That doesn't mean you should build a business on Brainfuck though :)

chriswarbo 10y ago

Hello world in PHP: <? print("hello world") Hello world in Haskell: main = print "hello world" You don't even need the "main = " if you're using a REPL :)

noonespecial 10y ago
"Php was already on my system. I cut and pasted a index.php from google and it worked! Now I have a website! ... What the #$^@ is cabal?"
kazinator 10y ago
Apples and oranges. What is hello-world in Haskell such that it is embedded into a page that you load out of Apache?
- dllthomas 10y ago
  > What is hello-world in Haskell such that it is embedded into a page that you load out of Apache? With apache configured to run the program as a CGI script? Still the same thing. That's not a great way to run Haskell on the web, but it's not too far from what's going on with historically common out-of-the-box PHP setups (and I understand that modern PHP setups take a little more code).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

maxxxxx 10y ago

No. You will find idiots in every language. C++ is hard to learn and you can do great stuff if you knew what you are doing but there are also plenty of people who create memory leaks left and right.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, But, no matter how complex the language is, it doesn't, unless "hello world" becomes incredibly platform, context, and (e.g.) day-of-the-motnh-on-which-it-is-compiled sensitive. Because, otherwise, it may take the first person some competence to "hello world", but everyone else can get by with copypasta and memorization.

VLM 10y ago

As a counterexample to the theory that incomprehensibility equals superiority, fizzbuzz java https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/FizzBuzz/Java https://www.rosettacode.org/wiki/FizzBuzz/Java vs fizzbuzz Enterprise java https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpris... Enterprise style java is not inherently bad, anyway. Its ideal for padding hours of government cost plus contracts, or megacorporation initiatives that'll be scrapped before deployment anyway.

chriswarbo 10y ago

> If it takes some amount of core-competence to simply hello world in a given language, then a code-base that uses that language automatically signals higher general aptitude of the programmer. There is a competing force though: if a language is flat out difficult to use, then much of the programmer's ability will be spent getting the damned thing to work. Passing the ACID3 test suite with a browser written by hand entirely in Brainfuck is a clear indication of a highly skilled programmer. That doesn't mean you should build a business on Brainfuck though :)