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I am immediately skeptical of this analysis. No .NET Framework at all? I know that isn't true since I have browsed Who's Hiring plenty.

to3m 10y ago
I guess the post just knows its audience. If you work with non-web technologies, you probably don't care about what colour the hype train is this week ;)
vonmoltke 10y ago
This analysis seems to indicate that the Who Is Hiring thread is heavily slanted towards webdev. Much to my disappointment, that has been my totally unscientific assessment for a while.
- StriverGuy 10y ago
  .NET can encompass web dev... The entire asp.net MVC and Web API frameworks are specifically for web dev.
  - wangchow 10y ago
    In addition to the .net core push seems a likely candidate to unify things (xamarin, .net core in Linux, etc...)
  - lmickh 10y ago
    If you check out the first post, you'll see that C# is fairly low in the overall listing for languages. It has been over taken by Go for example. Even if all of the C# jobs were MVC, it wouldn't be enough to compete with any of the JS frameworks. This analysis isn't that far off of some of the other trends you'll see from resources such as Gartner. Windows and .Net have taken a beating recently due to the growth in the cloud sector of IT.
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    I know it can, just as Java can. It's not very common, though. Particularly in the up-and-coming companies. I'm not surprised that .NET and Java get lost in the noise created by all the JavaScript/Ruby/Python.
xando 10y ago
I wrote the blog, apologises. I didn't include .NET frameworks for only one reason numbers were marginal (it's Hacker News after all). I didn't want to add 20 different lines on the charts. I didn't include many things for the same reason Said that If you think I should add something to this blog post (a tag) let me know, I will do that. Also, I'm building stats, page, where everything will be comparable and selectable, from all sources not only Hacker News.
- StriverGuy 10y ago
  That is completely reasonable now that you mention it. It makes sense that a graph could be come a complete mess with literally everything.
- andrewstuart2 10y ago
  It would be interesting at least to see an "other" line to get a feel for how many jobs are being advertised overall. And perhaps a table of the data as an appendix to show the actual numbers in more detail.
jasode 10y ago
> skeptical of this analysis. No .NET Framework at all? I think the author looked at ~5 years worth 2011-2016. For comparison, the previous "Who's Hiring" of August 2016[1] had 947 comments. If we only count the top level posts (ignore nested replies), it's probably ~900 job postings. Of those, I counted only 8 posts with the keyword "ASP.NET" and 35 posts with keyword "C#". Granted, that's only 1 month eyeball observation vs 5 years but it seems to be consistent with my perception of how much (how little?) C#/ASP.NET is used in the startup scene. (In contrast, if you browse Monster.com job listings, you'll see C#/Java posts outnumbering Nodejs/Python because more enterprise companies post openings there.) If the author didn't specifically look for "ASP.NET", perhaps the "Azure" stats would be a gross proxy for popularity. I doubt many Ruby/Rails, Python/Django, or NodeJS would specifically deploy to Azure. All the trends I see about Azure is that Microsoft is doing a very good job of attracting "enterprise" customers but not the hearts & minds of garage startups. As another unscientific observation: I can't remember any "Show HN" posts on the front page that used C#/ASP.NET. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12202865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12202865
- oblio 10y ago
  > Granted, that's only 1 month eyeball observation vs 5 years but it seems to be consistent with my perception of how much (how little?) C#/ASP.NET is used in the startup scene. This might change as dotnet core gathers steam. Mono was not considered a solid base by most companies, especially when compared to Java, while dotnet core has the QA assurances Microsoft can provide. Xamarin was also commercial and was quite expensive just 1 year ago. It would be an interesting experiment to monitor "Who's hiring" 2-3 years from now, I'm betting on .NET climbing quite steadily.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > This might change as dotnet core gathers steam. It also might not. > Mono was not considered a solid base by most companies, especially when compared to Java, while dotnet core has the QA assurances Microsoft can provide. This is true, but .NET and Windows both had that before: if the QA assurances Microsoft can provide was important to startups, the fact that a third-party reimplementation of .NET wasn't viewed as a solid base wouldn't prevent .NET uptake among startups. Now, if the only thing holding startups back from .NET was lack of first-class support for non-Windows platforms, .NET core might cure that, but I don't think it is.
arenaninja 10y ago
Yes, I've been looking into C# and ASP.NET MVC lately... Really good framework, I keep thinking how did I not try this sooner?

to3m 10y ago

I guess the post just knows its audience. If you work with non-web technologies, you probably don't care about what colour the hype train is this week ;)

vonmoltke 10y ago

This analysis seems to indicate that the Who Is Hiring thread is heavily slanted towards webdev. Much to my disappointment, that has been my totally unscientific assessment for a while.

StriverGuy 10y ago
.NET can encompass web dev... The entire asp.net MVC and Web API frameworks are specifically for web dev.
- wangchow 10y ago
  In addition to the .net core push seems a likely candidate to unify things (xamarin, .net core in Linux, etc...)
- lmickh 10y ago
  If you check out the first post, you'll see that C# is fairly low in the overall listing for languages. It has been over taken by Go for example. Even if all of the C# jobs were MVC, it wouldn't be enough to compete with any of the JS frameworks. This analysis isn't that far off of some of the other trends you'll see from resources such as Gartner. Windows and .Net have taken a beating recently due to the growth in the cloud sector of IT.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  I know it can, just as Java can. It's not very common, though. Particularly in the up-and-coming companies. I'm not surprised that .NET and Java get lost in the noise created by all the JavaScript/Ruby/Python.

xando 10y ago

I wrote the blog, apologises. I didn't include .NET frameworks for only one reason numbers were marginal (it's Hacker News after all). I didn't want to add 20 different lines on the charts. I didn't include many things for the same reason Said that If you think I should add something to this blog post (a tag) let me know, I will do that. Also, I'm building stats, page, where everything will be comparable and selectable, from all sources not only Hacker News.

StriverGuy 10y ago
That is completely reasonable now that you mention it. It makes sense that a graph could be come a complete mess with literally everything.
andrewstuart2 10y ago
It would be interesting at least to see an "other" line to get a feel for how many jobs are being advertised overall. And perhaps a table of the data as an appendix to show the actual numbers in more detail.

jasode 10y ago

> skeptical of this analysis. No .NET Framework at all? I think the author looked at ~5 years worth 2011-2016. For comparison, the previous "Who's Hiring" of August 2016[1] had 947 comments. If we only count the top level posts (ignore nested replies), it's probably ~900 job postings. Of those, I counted only 8 posts with the keyword "ASP.NET" and 35 posts with keyword "C#". Granted, that's only 1 month eyeball observation vs 5 years but it seems to be consistent with my perception of how much (how little?) C#/ASP.NET is used in the startup scene. (In contrast, if you browse Monster.com job listings, you'll see C#/Java posts outnumbering Nodejs/Python because more enterprise companies post openings there.) If the author didn't specifically look for "ASP.NET", perhaps the "Azure" stats would be a gross proxy for popularity. I doubt many Ruby/Rails, Python/Django, or NodeJS would specifically deploy to Azure. All the trends I see about Azure is that Microsoft is doing a very good job of attracting "enterprise" customers but not the hearts & minds of garage startups. As another unscientific observation: I can't remember any "Show HN" posts on the front page that used C#/ASP.NET. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12202865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12202865

oblio 10y ago
> Granted, that's only 1 month eyeball observation vs 5 years but it seems to be consistent with my perception of how much (how little?) C#/ASP.NET is used in the startup scene. This might change as dotnet core gathers steam. Mono was not considered a solid base by most companies, especially when compared to Java, while dotnet core has the QA assurances Microsoft can provide. Xamarin was also commercial and was quite expensive just 1 year ago. It would be an interesting experiment to monitor "Who's hiring" 2-3 years from now, I'm betting on .NET climbing quite steadily.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > This might change as dotnet core gathers steam. It also might not. > Mono was not considered a solid base by most companies, especially when compared to Java, while dotnet core has the QA assurances Microsoft can provide. This is true, but .NET and Windows both had that before: if the QA assurances Microsoft can provide was important to startups, the fact that a third-party reimplementation of .NET wasn't viewed as a solid base wouldn't prevent .NET uptake among startups. Now, if the only thing holding startups back from .NET was lack of first-class support for non-Windows platforms, .NET core might cure that, but I don't think it is.

arenaninja 10y ago

Yes, I've been looking into C# and ASP.NET MVC lately... Really good framework, I keep thinking how did I not try this sooner?