41 ms·

Perfectly said. Thank you!

wpietri 10y ago
Thanks. As a kid, I'd read my grandfather's real estate sales manuals and I always found them both fascinating and horrific. The hacker in me always appreciates good technique. But there was just no getting around the fact that it was all about manipulating other people into doing whatever got you paid. In a way, I feel bad for akg_67 and people like him. Our morals too easily conform to our jobs. As Upton Sinclair says, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I was lucky enough to see the problem young, and lucky again that I could afford to make my living some other way. But there are a lot of people stuck in these ethical traps. I wish there were more ways out for them.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Do you recall any details of those manuals? Company-specific stuff, or National Association of Realtors (NAR) stuff? What time period?
  - wpietri 10y ago
    This would be late 70s/early 80s. My memories are hazy, but I suspect it was third-party stuff.
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Thanks. Sounds pretty bog standard for sales, but dovetails in with some related stuff I'm looking at. Sales is a very telling counterpoint to economic "free market" theory.
      - wpietri 10y ago
        Yes, definitely. I look at sales and advertising as an arms race. If nobody did it, we would be fine, especially now when publishing is free and search is incredibly good. But if anybody does it, all their competitors are obliged to keep up. The free-market equilibrium is obviously wasteful. I'm sure we could save a half-trillion dollars a year if we eliminated this sort of arms race. I'd expect free market advocates to be excited about this because it would also remove a great deal of market distortion, allowing market mechanisms to work better. Their lack of interest I take as a tell: what really motivates them is not free markets.
        dredmorbius 10y ago
        Quite. I'm doing some research on Edward Bernays again. Absolutely fascinating and revolting creature. If you've not seen Adam Curtis's The Century of the Self, do. I also think that Free Markets are a smokescreen, though I'm not sure all those using as such realise it. I'm fairly convinced the main propaganda ministers -- the Mont Pelerin Society, Atlas Network, Cato, etc., do. Johan Norberg is their currently annointed Prince of Darkness.

Thanks. As a kid, I'd read my grandfather's real estate sales manuals and I always found them both fascinating and horrific. The hacker in me always appreciates good technique. But there was just no getting around the fact that it was all about manipulating other people into doing whatever got you paid. In a way, I feel bad for akg_67 and people like him. Our morals too easily conform to our jobs. As Upton Sinclair says, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I was lucky enough to see the problem young, and lucky again that I could afford to make my living some other way. But there are a lot of people stuck in these ethical traps. I wish there were more ways out for them.

dredmorbius 10y ago
Do you recall any details of those manuals? Company-specific stuff, or National Association of Realtors (NAR) stuff? What time period?
- wpietri 10y ago
  This would be late 70s/early 80s. My memories are hazy, but I suspect it was third-party stuff.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Thanks. Sounds pretty bog standard for sales, but dovetails in with some related stuff I'm looking at. Sales is a very telling counterpoint to economic "free market" theory.
    - wpietri 10y ago
      Yes, definitely. I look at sales and advertising as an arms race. If nobody did it, we would be fine, especially now when publishing is free and search is incredibly good. But if anybody does it, all their competitors are obliged to keep up. The free-market equilibrium is obviously wasteful. I'm sure we could save a half-trillion dollars a year if we eliminated this sort of arms race. I'd expect free market advocates to be excited about this because it would also remove a great deal of market distortion, allowing market mechanisms to work better. Their lack of interest I take as a tell: what really motivates them is not free markets.
      - dredmorbius 10y ago
        Quite. I'm doing some research on Edward Bernays again. Absolutely fascinating and revolting creature. If you've not seen Adam Curtis's The Century of the Self, do. I also think that Free Markets are a smokescreen, though I'm not sure all those using as such realise it. I'm fairly convinced the main propaganda ministers -- the Mont Pelerin Society, Atlas Network, Cato, etc., do. Johan Norberg is their currently annointed Prince of Darkness.