4 ms·

I am lucky I live in the northen parts of Europe. I do not wish to live in America in ~50-100 years from now since there is so much guns and other weapons easil

I am lucky I live in the northen parts of Europe. I do not wish to live in America in ~50-100 years from now since there is so much guns and other weapons easily available. People who care about their childrens future should start planning now. I think when the shit hits the fan it will hit hard and fast.

sevenless 10y ago
> People who care about their childrens future should start planning now. If you believe this, wouldn't the ethical thing be to not have kids? Besides, global warming-derived refugee flows into Europe could well put it in a much worse position than the US.
- staticelf 10y ago
  Well.. yes. But I think a lot of people are going to have kids nonetheless and a lot of people here maybe already have kids.
  - collyw 10y ago
    Or nephews and nieces or other kids that they might actually care about leaving an inhabitable world for.
- goodcanadian 10y ago
  If you believe this, wouldn't the ethical thing be to not have kids? I see this over and over . . . If you don't have kids, who exactly are you saving the world for?
  - sevenless 10y ago
    I take it the world isn't going to be 'saved'. The question is how we respond to that. Why do you see 'saving the world' as a priority? The natural (non-human) environment doesn't have any right to exist. Our priority should be to avoid harming humans, and people born into a world that's mostly uninhabitable for them will have pretty shit lives. Long term, the world will be fine, we won't.
  - davidy123 10y ago
    > I see this over and over . . . If you don't have kids, who exactly are you saving the world for? The billions of people (including kids) who already exist. Whether through adoption or supporting better general social programs. Clearly if that were the focus and the way humans thought the world would be a better place. But of course it's wishful thinking and people have every right to have and enjoy their own children.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - davidy123 10y ago
      Holy downvoting. Why?
jmnicolas 10y ago
Make no mistake there are a lot of guns in Europe : we had so many wars, WW1, WW2, Yugoslavia and now the Ukraine. Each time quantity of weapons "disappear" only to reappear later. In France criminal and terrorists organizations are mainly using surplus from the Yugoslavian war but the Police still seize regularly WW2 guns which are still quite capable compared to more modern guns. So if we didn't manage to clean the mess of WW2 70 years later, I see no reason why there won't be black market Ukrainian weapons at the end of the century. I never understood people that think they are safe if only law abiding citizen don't have guns. The Police can't protect you from an immediate threat, they come to collect your body and find the killer.
- donw 10y ago
  Very true. The invention of the modern firearm, one that fires an integrated cartridge (what the layperson would call a bullet), predates the invention of the bicycle. Both bicycles and firearms have about the same number of moving parts, and manufacturing either does not require any tooling or materials outside of what you can buy at a home supply store. Basically, the genie left that bottle a long time ago. You can certainly disarm people that follow laws, but that's about it. Doesn't seem to make life harder on the criminals at all. A pistol runs about GBP 150 on the black market in the UK, and a lot of criminals are armed, although said guns are used more to intimidate and coerce than to kill.
mikeash 10y ago
If the shit hits the fan, I'd rather be in the country with a lot of weapons. Historically, American weapons usually get used on other countries, not on ourselves.

sevenless 10y ago

> People who care about their childrens future should start planning now. If you believe this, wouldn't the ethical thing be to not have kids? Besides, global warming-derived refugee flows into Europe could well put it in a much worse position than the US.

staticelf 10y ago
Well.. yes. But I think a lot of people are going to have kids nonetheless and a lot of people here maybe already have kids.
- collyw 10y ago
  Or nephews and nieces or other kids that they might actually care about leaving an inhabitable world for.
goodcanadian 10y ago
If you believe this, wouldn't the ethical thing be to not have kids? I see this over and over . . . If you don't have kids, who exactly are you saving the world for?
- sevenless 10y ago
  I take it the world isn't going to be 'saved'. The question is how we respond to that. Why do you see 'saving the world' as a priority? The natural (non-human) environment doesn't have any right to exist. Our priority should be to avoid harming humans, and people born into a world that's mostly uninhabitable for them will have pretty shit lives. Long term, the world will be fine, we won't.
- davidy123 10y ago
  > I see this over and over . . . If you don't have kids, who exactly are you saving the world for? The billions of people (including kids) who already exist. Whether through adoption or supporting better general social programs. Clearly if that were the focus and the way humans thought the world would be a better place. But of course it's wishful thinking and people have every right to have and enjoy their own children.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - davidy123 10y ago
    Holy downvoting. Why?

jmnicolas 10y ago

Make no mistake there are a lot of guns in Europe : we had so many wars, WW1, WW2, Yugoslavia and now the Ukraine. Each time quantity of weapons "disappear" only to reappear later. In France criminal and terrorists organizations are mainly using surplus from the Yugoslavian war but the Police still seize regularly WW2 guns which are still quite capable compared to more modern guns. So if we didn't manage to clean the mess of WW2 70 years later, I see no reason why there won't be black market Ukrainian weapons at the end of the century. I never understood people that think they are safe if only law abiding citizen don't have guns. The Police can't protect you from an immediate threat, they come to collect your body and find the killer.

donw 10y ago
Very true. The invention of the modern firearm, one that fires an integrated cartridge (what the layperson would call a bullet), predates the invention of the bicycle. Both bicycles and firearms have about the same number of moving parts, and manufacturing either does not require any tooling or materials outside of what you can buy at a home supply store. Basically, the genie left that bottle a long time ago. You can certainly disarm people that follow laws, but that's about it. Doesn't seem to make life harder on the criminals at all. A pistol runs about GBP 150 on the black market in the UK, and a lot of criminals are armed, although said guns are used more to intimidate and coerce than to kill.

mikeash 10y ago

If the shit hits the fan, I'd rather be in the country with a lot of weapons. Historically, American weapons usually get used on other countries, not on ourselves.