3 ms·

> How many of you have not worked with someone whom you suspected of not being able to program, despite being paid to do so? I haven't, and I don't understand

> How many of you have not worked with someone whom you suspected of not being able to program, despite being paid to do so? I haven't, and I don't understand how people like that get and retain jobs without having some other "in" to exploit the system.

babuskov 10y ago
> I don't understand how people like that get... Their resume is so good. They worked at top companies. Nobody wants to insult them with some simple test of programming basics during interview, so they rather ask them what was it like working in the Big Companies. After some chit-chat, they get the job. The company thinks they're lucky to have hired someone that smart. > ...and retain jobs Inertia, lack of communication inside the company, etc. Those people are usually also very friendly and soon learn who reports to whom and how to hide the fact that they aren't contributing anything useful.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  > Their resume is so good. They worked at top companies. Nobody wants to insult them with some simple test of programming basics during interview, so they rather ask them what was it like working in the Big Companies. After some chit-chat, they get the job. The company thinks they're lucky to have hired someone that smart. So, bad processes and cultish worship of certain companies. > Inertia, lack of communication inside the company, etc. Those people are usually also very friendly and soon learn who reports to whom and how to hide the fact that they aren't contributing anything useful. So, more bad processes. I know my responses are bordering on flippant, but having come up from the real engineering world I don't see how these things happen for any reason other than companies in this industry are not run nearly as well as their management thinks.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - lmm 10y ago
    Maybe they hired some managers who can't manage, but interview well and have a lot of experience managing at top companies?
    - vonmoltke 10y ago
      Dual response to you and raverbashing, since you both express the same concept: Having non-technical management interview and assess technical hires is a serious process error. If you are hiring someone, regardless of what it is for, and you task someone with evaluating that candidate in an area the interviewer knows little to nothing about you have screwed up royally and need to fix your process. I haven't seen that happen in a real engineering company, at least not for technical roles.
- twblalock 10y ago
  I don't get this. Even when I interview people I am going to report to, I grill them on technical questions.
  - raverbashing 10y ago
    Managers are usually the less technically inclined at certain companies. They don't know what to ask and they don't care
abritinthebay 10y ago
It's especially common when they used to work at a "famous" company. Some real world examples: in the mid-2000s being a "Googler" was a straight pass by some to thinking you were some wizz-bang amazing programmer. Because Google only hired the best and brightest, right? Then you work with some of them and realize they they were nothing more than a smart college kid who got lucky with who hired them and were terrible programmers. They were juniors at best, but now with the ego of RMS. The same happened for a while with "Game Producers" from Zynga, when they were riding high and had a better reputation. The trouble was that Zynga had a policy of rapid promotion so you got "Producers" and "Studio Leads" who couldn't last 5 minutes outside of Zynga. That wasn't always the case, but it happened enough that it actually became something of a black mark in the industry.
- vonmoltke 10y ago
  So basically you just hire people with stellar-looking resumes. When has that ever been a good idea?
  - abritinthebay 10y ago
    Never said it was a good idea but it's shockingly common. Also passing an interview isn't hard. Especially if you know the right terminology and are personable. It's the day to day on the job tasks where the lack of skill becomes really apparent.

babuskov 10y ago

> I don't understand how people like that get... Their resume is so good. They worked at top companies. Nobody wants to insult them with some simple test of programming basics during interview, so they rather ask them what was it like working in the Big Companies. After some chit-chat, they get the job. The company thinks they're lucky to have hired someone that smart. > ...and retain jobs Inertia, lack of communication inside the company, etc. Those people are usually also very friendly and soon learn who reports to whom and how to hide the fact that they aren't contributing anything useful.

vonmoltke 10y ago
> Their resume is so good. They worked at top companies. Nobody wants to insult them with some simple test of programming basics during interview, so they rather ask them what was it like working in the Big Companies. After some chit-chat, they get the job. The company thinks they're lucky to have hired someone that smart. So, bad processes and cultish worship of certain companies. > Inertia, lack of communication inside the company, etc. Those people are usually also very friendly and soon learn who reports to whom and how to hide the fact that they aren't contributing anything useful. So, more bad processes. I know my responses are bordering on flippant, but having come up from the real engineering world I don't see how these things happen for any reason other than companies in this industry are not run nearly as well as their management thinks.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- lmm 10y ago
  Maybe they hired some managers who can't manage, but interview well and have a lot of experience managing at top companies?
  - vonmoltke 10y ago
    Dual response to you and raverbashing, since you both express the same concept: Having non-technical management interview and assess technical hires is a serious process error. If you are hiring someone, regardless of what it is for, and you task someone with evaluating that candidate in an area the interviewer knows little to nothing about you have screwed up royally and need to fix your process. I haven't seen that happen in a real engineering company, at least not for technical roles.
twblalock 10y ago
I don't get this. Even when I interview people I am going to report to, I grill them on technical questions.
- raverbashing 10y ago
  Managers are usually the less technically inclined at certain companies. They don't know what to ask and they don't care

abritinthebay 10y ago

It's especially common when they used to work at a "famous" company. Some real world examples: in the mid-2000s being a "Googler" was a straight pass by some to thinking you were some wizz-bang amazing programmer. Because Google only hired the best and brightest, right? Then you work with some of them and realize they they were nothing more than a smart college kid who got lucky with who hired them and were terrible programmers. They were juniors at best, but now with the ego of RMS. The same happened for a while with "Game Producers" from Zynga, when they were riding high and had a better reputation. The trouble was that Zynga had a policy of rapid promotion so you got "Producers" and "Studio Leads" who couldn't last 5 minutes outside of Zynga. That wasn't always the case, but it happened enough that it actually became something of a black mark in the industry.

vonmoltke 10y ago
So basically you just hire people with stellar-looking resumes. When has that ever been a good idea?
- abritinthebay 10y ago
  Never said it was a good idea but it's shockingly common. Also passing an interview isn't hard. Especially if you know the right terminology and are personable. It's the day to day on the job tasks where the lack of skill becomes really apparent.