6 ms·

In Paris, Plans for a Seine Reinvention (2015)

111 points by rch 10y ago

otoburb 10y ago
This is partly in response to Paris briefly being one of the most polluted cities in the world[1] by some measures last year. But generally, it seems Paris fares slight better than Los Angeles & Amsterdam and slightly worse than London and NYC[2]. [1] http://www.france24.com/en/20150320-paris-city-smog-pollution-plume-labs-hidalgo-public-transport-diesel http://www.france24.com/en/20150320-paris-city-smog-pollutio... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/dec/02/where-world-most-polluted-city-air-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/dec/02/where-world-m...
- yardie 10y ago
  Paris is built in a valley with Montmartre to the north and Montparnasse to the south. When the winds die down for more than a few days being in the city really sucks. All the diesel particulates just sit their. Like you can feel the smog and particulates accumulating on your skin.
  - Rexxar 10y ago
    You can't reasonably say that Paris is in a valley because of two small hills (altitude 130m, only 100m above the lowest point of Paris). When there is no wind pollution accumulate everywhere. Paris is in a very good position for pollution: in a middle of a plain, not very far from sea with a regular wind from west.
kweks 10y ago
The sections on Rive Gauche that they have turned into pedestrian areas are really quite pleasant - and traffic hasn't suffered so much. Also slated is turning place de la bastille into pedestrian only square, and potentially opening the monument to public visit - amongst seven other pro-pedestrian plans: http://www.la-croix.com/France/Sept-places-parisiennes-partiellement-rendues-aux-pietons-2016-03-25-1200749124 http://www.la-croix.com/France/Sept-places-parisiennes-parti... There is some public criticism, after Place de la Republique was 'transformed' recently - the traffic was reduced, but the entire square is now a tree-less concrete block.
- ghaff 10y ago
  >the entire square is now a tree-less concrete block There need to be reasons for people to come into an area--often cafes, etc. In Boston, City Hall Plaza is notorious. It's a barren wind-swept brickyard for much of the year. At one point, there was a part-time farmers' market around the fringes in the summer but it's generally very underutilized space.
- gbersac 10y ago
  There is trees on the Republic place. Not much, but there is some.
- maelito 10y ago
  ~100 trees according to this awesome map http://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementparis2010/map/?location=19,48.86747,2.36395 http://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementpar...
sylvinus 10y ago
FYI, this is from 2015.
bsaul 10y ago
Paris main problem is population density and no high buildings. but you have to see this plan as a part of the "great paris" project aimed at making Paris merge better with its suburb. And hopefully have people not travel theough Paris if they don't need to stop inside.
- _delirium 10y ago
  Paris is a high-density city by Western standards. It's either the highest-density city in Europe or close, depending on how exactly you demarcate cities. We often have discussions here about how San Francisco needs to densify, but Paris has 3x the population density of SF, so is nowhere near in the same league of low-density cities. It's 50% denser than Brooklyn. Of American cities / sub-city regions, only Manhattan edges it out (Manhattan is 30% more dense).
- trystero 10y ago
  The city of Paris ("intra-muros") is actually the densest capital in the Western world.
- ocschwar 10y ago
  American cities have much higher towers, but then they waste the space around those towers on car parking. Paris does it better.
stephenhuey 10y ago
The article is from over a year ago in May 2015. This BBC article from a few months ago in May of 2016 confirmed that by the end of this summer they are still planning to reserve a portion of the Right Bank only for pedestrians and there is also a map to mark the area that will be blocked off from cars. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36169815 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36169815 I don't see any more recent updates and this August 15th article with quotes from Mayor Anne Hidalgo is the most recent confirmation I've found that the work is ongoing: http://pejnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10579:mayor-of-paris-remains-committed-to-the-struggle-to-reclaim-her-city-from-the-car-hume&catid=74:ijustice-news&Itemid=216 http://pejnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article...
- programLyrique 10y ago
  There have been some updates today: a commission has just finished to investigate the outcomes and given a negative assessment, but the mayor of Paris has stated that she will not follow the advice of the commission and carry on implementing the plan to reserve a portion for pedestrians. Source (in French): http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2016/08/22/la-commission-d-enquete-sur-la-pietonisation-des-voies-sur-berge-a-paris-rend-un-avis-defavorable_4986504_3224.html http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2016/08/22/la-commissi...
tezza 10y ago
They'll still be a prime location for action movie scenes I hope. You can't have a Paris car chase and gun battles without zooming along the Seine sans traffic
cm2187 10y ago
For those who are unfamiliar with the city of Paris' strategy on transport, what they are trying to achieve is to create the maximum amount of traffic jam so that people stop using cars out of frustration. Other means include multiplying bus lanes, bicycle lanes, etc. The outcome is an over-congested and polluted Paris.
- eyeinthepyramid 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that reducing the number of cars in Paris will somehow increase pollution?
  - cm2187 10y ago
    It's actually the outcome. The same car will take a lot more time to make the same distance, polluting a lot more than if it was flowing quickly.
    - lhopki01 10y ago
      No it's not. Study after study has shown that building more roads doesn't speed up cars it just increases the number of cards and reducing roads doesn't slow down cars it just decreases the total number.
    - eyeinthepyramid 10y ago
      hmm I could see it being the case that each individual car contributes more to the pollution, but if the total number of cars is reduced in a given area at any given time, it makes more sense to me that the aggregate pollution would decrease, no?
    - Tiktaalik 10y ago
      It doesn't turn out this way. People don't rigidly stick to their cars when road capacity reaches its physical limits. As driving becomes less desirable, people adjust their behaviour. They drive less and use alternatives.
  - snewk 10y ago
ocschwar 10y ago
You can expect measures like this to intensify around Europe, thanks to the software engineers at WV and Audi. If cities can't trust carmakers to be honest about the emissions their products make, then they're going to work harder to kick cars out altogether.
gbersac 10y ago
A parisian enthousiast for every non-car policy !!!

111 points by rch 10y ago

This is partly in response to Paris briefly being one of the most polluted cities in the world[1] by some measures last year. But generally, it seems Paris fares slight better than Los Angeles & Amsterdam and slightly worse than London and NYC[2]. [1] http://www.france24.com/en/20150320-paris-city-smog-pollution-plume-labs-hidalgo-public-transport-diesel http://www.france24.com/en/20150320-paris-city-smog-pollutio... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/dec/02/where-world-most-polluted-city-air-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/dec/02/where-world-m...

yardie 10y ago
Paris is built in a valley with Montmartre to the north and Montparnasse to the south. When the winds die down for more than a few days being in the city really sucks. All the diesel particulates just sit their. Like you can feel the smog and particulates accumulating on your skin.
- Rexxar 10y ago
  You can't reasonably say that Paris is in a valley because of two small hills (altitude 130m, only 100m above the lowest point of Paris). When there is no wind pollution accumulate everywhere. Paris is in a very good position for pollution: in a middle of a plain, not very far from sea with a regular wind from west.

kweks 10y ago

The sections on Rive Gauche that they have turned into pedestrian areas are really quite pleasant - and traffic hasn't suffered so much. Also slated is turning place de la bastille into pedestrian only square, and potentially opening the monument to public visit - amongst seven other pro-pedestrian plans: http://www.la-croix.com/France/Sept-places-parisiennes-partiellement-rendues-aux-pietons-2016-03-25-1200749124 http://www.la-croix.com/France/Sept-places-parisiennes-parti... There is some public criticism, after Place de la Republique was 'transformed' recently - the traffic was reduced, but the entire square is now a tree-less concrete block.

ghaff 10y ago
>the entire square is now a tree-less concrete block There need to be reasons for people to come into an area--often cafes, etc. In Boston, City Hall Plaza is notorious. It's a barren wind-swept brickyard for much of the year. At one point, there was a part-time farmers' market around the fringes in the summer but it's generally very underutilized space.
gbersac 10y ago
There is trees on the Republic place. Not much, but there is some.
maelito 10y ago
~100 trees according to this awesome map http://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementparis2010/map/?location=19,48.86747,2.36395 http://opendata.paris.fr/explore/dataset/arbresalignementpar...

sylvinus 10y ago

FYI, this is from 2015.

bsaul 10y ago

Paris main problem is population density and no high buildings. but you have to see this plan as a part of the "great paris" project aimed at making Paris merge better with its suburb. And hopefully have people not travel theough Paris if they don't need to stop inside.

_delirium 10y ago
Paris is a high-density city by Western standards. It's either the highest-density city in Europe or close, depending on how exactly you demarcate cities. We often have discussions here about how San Francisco needs to densify, but Paris has 3x the population density of SF, so is nowhere near in the same league of low-density cities. It's 50% denser than Brooklyn. Of American cities / sub-city regions, only Manhattan edges it out (Manhattan is 30% more dense).
trystero 10y ago
The city of Paris ("intra-muros") is actually the densest capital in the Western world.
ocschwar 10y ago
American cities have much higher towers, but then they waste the space around those towers on car parking. Paris does it better.

stephenhuey 10y ago

The article is from over a year ago in May 2015. This BBC article from a few months ago in May of 2016 confirmed that by the end of this summer they are still planning to reserve a portion of the Right Bank only for pedestrians and there is also a map to mark the area that will be blocked off from cars. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36169815 http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36169815 I don't see any more recent updates and this August 15th article with quotes from Mayor Anne Hidalgo is the most recent confirmation I've found that the work is ongoing: http://pejnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10579:mayor-of-paris-remains-committed-to-the-struggle-to-reclaim-her-city-from-the-car-hume&catid=74:ijustice-news&Itemid=216 http://pejnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article...

programLyrique 10y ago
There have been some updates today: a commission has just finished to investigate the outcomes and given a negative assessment, but the mayor of Paris has stated that she will not follow the advice of the commission and carry on implementing the plan to reserve a portion for pedestrians. Source (in French): http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2016/08/22/la-commission-d-enquete-sur-la-pietonisation-des-voies-sur-berge-a-paris-rend-un-avis-defavorable_4986504_3224.html http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2016/08/22/la-commissi...

tezza 10y ago

They'll still be a prime location for action movie scenes I hope. You can't have a Paris car chase and gun battles without zooming along the Seine sans traffic

cm2187 10y ago

For those who are unfamiliar with the city of Paris' strategy on transport, what they are trying to achieve is to create the maximum amount of traffic jam so that people stop using cars out of frustration. Other means include multiplying bus lanes, bicycle lanes, etc. The outcome is an over-congested and polluted Paris.

eyeinthepyramid 10y ago
Are you suggesting that reducing the number of cars in Paris will somehow increase pollution?
- cm2187 10y ago
  It's actually the outcome. The same car will take a lot more time to make the same distance, polluting a lot more than if it was flowing quickly.
  - lhopki01 10y ago
    No it's not. Study after study has shown that building more roads doesn't speed up cars it just increases the number of cards and reducing roads doesn't slow down cars it just decreases the total number.
  - eyeinthepyramid 10y ago
    hmm I could see it being the case that each individual car contributes more to the pollution, but if the total number of cars is reduced in a given area at any given time, it makes more sense to me that the aggregate pollution would decrease, no?
  - Tiktaalik 10y ago
    It doesn't turn out this way. People don't rigidly stick to their cars when road capacity reaches its physical limits. As driving becomes less desirable, people adjust their behaviour. They drive less and use alternatives.
- snewk 10y ago

ocschwar 10y ago

You can expect measures like this to intensify around Europe, thanks to the software engineers at WV and Audi. If cities can't trust carmakers to be honest about the emissions their products make, then they're going to work harder to kick cars out altogether.

gbersac 10y ago

A parisian enthousiast for every non-car policy !!!