4 ms·

I personally hope MS keeps going down the user-hostile path. It's causing people I wouldn't have expected to care to seek alternatives. The only way I'd ever co

I personally hope MS keeps going down the user-hostile path. It's causing people I wouldn't have expected to care to seek alternatives. The only way I'd ever consider using Windows for my own computing again is if MS went crazy and open-sourced Windows, Visual Studio and Office.

Grishnakh 10y ago
I agree about hoping MS being more user-hostile, but I disagree about using Windows again if they open-source it. The only thing I'd ever use it for is software that I just can't get to work on Linux or WINE. I really don't care if it's open-source; I simply do not like using it. It's terrible software with a terrible UI. It's not nice to use, and it's nothing short of awful to administer: it needs constant updates, and updating it takes forever and makes the computer completely unusable and then forces multiple reboots. What idiot designed this? On my Linux systems, I need to do an update every day it seems, and it takes all of about 5 seconds: I click on the updater icon, enter my password, and then minimize it to the background and it does the update by itself, with no reboots needed. Most updates are very fast anyway; usually they're just updating some little 100kB library and that takes no time at all to download and install. But I completely agree about MS going down the user-hostile path. It's actually pretty funny to watch, and to see so many people bitching and complaining about it. I just keep telling them to stop complaining and if they don't like it, don't use it, which hopefully pisses them off even more (it sure seems to). Maybe if these morons finally get fed up enough with being shat on by MS and then not getting any sympathy from the peanut gallery, and being told it's their own fault for picking MS as their vendor, they'll get a clue and switch. It seems to be working for some, and for the rest I have no sympathy. This whole terrible situation we have with MS being an abusive monopolist for so long is directly the result of the choices made by people like that, so I'm happy to see them get their come-uppance.
- jasonkostempski 10y ago
  I sympathize with people that are "stuck" with it. I still use it for work but I don't use any personal stuff on my work machine. I could quit my job but, frankly, I'm not that brave :) I am in a position to maybe help transition away from it, but that can be an up-cliff battle sometimes. Fact is, MS has a strong grip on a lot of sacks out there.
  - Grishnakh 10y ago
    Don't misunderstand me: I use Windows at work too. But like you said, I don't do personal stuff on my work machine. My work machine belongs to my employer, and if it has any problems, that's their problem, not mine. I don't like using it much, but there's a reason it's called "work"; I get paid to put up with crap like using Windows. I'll happily recommend alternate solutions if asked, but it's not my company and not my call. Luckily much of my work involves Linux (thanks to a VM), but if Windows dies or doing updates takes up hours of my time, that's no problem, I get paid the same regardless, I just make sure to point out in my weekly reports that my time is being wasted by that stuff. All I care about is that I get paid the rate I was promised for doing the best I can with the tools I'm given. If I find a better job somewhere later that doesn't involve Windows, great, but for now this deal works OK for me. For my personal machines, however, it's a different story: I'm not going to waste my time and money on an inferior OS which has no appreciable benefit to me, and many gigantic downsides. If other people choose to, that's on them, but I'm tired of hearing them bitch and complain about that OS's vendor mistreating them. They made their bed, now they need to lie in it.
ropeladder 10y ago
It convinced me to switch. I've been on Windows since forever and was excited for Windows 10, but the privacy (and auto update) issues convinced me to dual boot with Linux Mint, which I now use for everything but the occasional game. I have a few small gripes, but overall it works well (bluetooth drivers actually work much better). I can kind of see MS's perspective, in that everyone else is doing all kinds of tracking and auto-updating on all their platforms. But for me it really felt like I was losing control of my computer in an unacceptable way.
- diydsp 10y ago
  me, too! I spent a few weeks trying to use /r/tronscript and disable specific updates but then just said "sod it" and I run Ubuntu Studio now. My work laptop is still Win7 so I can get win-only things there like cbmprgstudio...
  - retro64 10y ago
    You could try CBM prg Studio with Wine/.NET (or mono). I doubt the integrated debugging would work though unless you also ran WinVICE. Wine really is quite impressive. Even for many games it is very solid.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  I spent the requisite minute to turn off all of the settings after a clean install and then promptly forgot about it. Haven't had a problem since. It's the same thing I have to do on every other OS...there's no OS that I can install and then NOT have to configure in some way.
  - Sylos 10y ago
    1) That's a logical fallacy. Just because every OS needs configuration, doesn't mean that it's ok for one OS to suddenly need a lot more configuration for no reason, let alone for the reason of making it as hard as possible to get the OS into a privacy-friendly state. 2) These settings have been resetted for many users in the past, especially after bigger upgrades, so you not having problems is not a terribly great metric. I don't have proper statistics either, but they would be very much appropriate here. 3) You cannot actually turn all telemetry off, at least not in any official way.
mikro2nd 10y ago
Not even then...!

Grishnakh 10y ago

I agree about hoping MS being more user-hostile, but I disagree about using Windows again if they open-source it. The only thing I'd ever use it for is software that I just can't get to work on Linux or WINE. I really don't care if it's open-source; I simply do not like using it. It's terrible software with a terrible UI. It's not nice to use, and it's nothing short of awful to administer: it needs constant updates, and updating it takes forever and makes the computer completely unusable and then forces multiple reboots. What idiot designed this? On my Linux systems, I need to do an update every day it seems, and it takes all of about 5 seconds: I click on the updater icon, enter my password, and then minimize it to the background and it does the update by itself, with no reboots needed. Most updates are very fast anyway; usually they're just updating some little 100kB library and that takes no time at all to download and install. But I completely agree about MS going down the user-hostile path. It's actually pretty funny to watch, and to see so many people bitching and complaining about it. I just keep telling them to stop complaining and if they don't like it, don't use it, which hopefully pisses them off even more (it sure seems to). Maybe if these morons finally get fed up enough with being shat on by MS and then not getting any sympathy from the peanut gallery, and being told it's their own fault for picking MS as their vendor, they'll get a clue and switch. It seems to be working for some, and for the rest I have no sympathy. This whole terrible situation we have with MS being an abusive monopolist for so long is directly the result of the choices made by people like that, so I'm happy to see them get their come-uppance.

jasonkostempski 10y ago
I sympathize with people that are "stuck" with it. I still use it for work but I don't use any personal stuff on my work machine. I could quit my job but, frankly, I'm not that brave :) I am in a position to maybe help transition away from it, but that can be an up-cliff battle sometimes. Fact is, MS has a strong grip on a lot of sacks out there.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Don't misunderstand me: I use Windows at work too. But like you said, I don't do personal stuff on my work machine. My work machine belongs to my employer, and if it has any problems, that's their problem, not mine. I don't like using it much, but there's a reason it's called "work"; I get paid to put up with crap like using Windows. I'll happily recommend alternate solutions if asked, but it's not my company and not my call. Luckily much of my work involves Linux (thanks to a VM), but if Windows dies or doing updates takes up hours of my time, that's no problem, I get paid the same regardless, I just make sure to point out in my weekly reports that my time is being wasted by that stuff. All I care about is that I get paid the rate I was promised for doing the best I can with the tools I'm given. If I find a better job somewhere later that doesn't involve Windows, great, but for now this deal works OK for me. For my personal machines, however, it's a different story: I'm not going to waste my time and money on an inferior OS which has no appreciable benefit to me, and many gigantic downsides. If other people choose to, that's on them, but I'm tired of hearing them bitch and complain about that OS's vendor mistreating them. They made their bed, now they need to lie in it.

ropeladder 10y ago

It convinced me to switch. I've been on Windows since forever and was excited for Windows 10, but the privacy (and auto update) issues convinced me to dual boot with Linux Mint, which I now use for everything but the occasional game. I have a few small gripes, but overall it works well (bluetooth drivers actually work much better). I can kind of see MS's perspective, in that everyone else is doing all kinds of tracking and auto-updating on all their platforms. But for me it really felt like I was losing control of my computer in an unacceptable way.

diydsp 10y ago
me, too! I spent a few weeks trying to use /r/tronscript and disable specific updates but then just said "sod it" and I run Ubuntu Studio now. My work laptop is still Win7 so I can get win-only things there like cbmprgstudio...
- retro64 10y ago
  You could try CBM prg Studio with Wine/.NET (or mono). I doubt the integrated debugging would work though unless you also ran WinVICE. Wine really is quite impressive. Even for many games it is very solid.
WayneBro 10y ago
I spent the requisite minute to turn off all of the settings after a clean install and then promptly forgot about it. Haven't had a problem since. It's the same thing I have to do on every other OS...there's no OS that I can install and then NOT have to configure in some way.
- Sylos 10y ago
  1) That's a logical fallacy. Just because every OS needs configuration, doesn't mean that it's ok for one OS to suddenly need a lot more configuration for no reason, let alone for the reason of making it as hard as possible to get the OS into a privacy-friendly state. 2) These settings have been resetted for many users in the past, especially after bigger upgrades, so you not having problems is not a terribly great metric. I don't have proper statistics either, but they would be very much appropriate here. 3) You cannot actually turn all telemetry off, at least not in any official way.

mikro2nd 10y ago

Not even then...!