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I re-read Michael Lewis' Liar's Poker once every few years. In new reprints he's added a prologue where he says something along the lines of "I tried to write
by chollida1 10y ago
I re-read Michael Lewis' Liar's Poker once every few years. In new reprints he's added a prologue where he says something along the lines of "I tried to write a book about the horrors of wall street and instead it became a recruiting tool for wall street"
In a similar vein whenever something like this comes up I write something that says don't try and do this and inevitable I get 10+ emails from people saying "Ok I understand but I still want to do it anyway."
So if you really want to try and day trade, here is my 5 points of advice
1) You haven't done anything until you trade with real money. Ever played poker with friends that wasn't for money? You always get some jerk bluffing and going all in on Ace-7 because why not, it doesn't matter.
If you want to trade you need to learn your own emotional limits. Get invested as soon as possible. Learn what kind of stress you can deal with.
2) The average successful individual algo trade looks like John Turturro charter Joey Knish in rounders. You are always grinding out a living $100 to $1000 at a time. If that isn't' appealing then stop before you start.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0128442/fullcredits/
3) You need money to begin. It takes as much effort to trade 2000 as it does 200,000. Above a million or so things change. A minimum amount I'd use would be 50,000. If you can't set that aside to trade then don't start.
I mean if you have a great year trading 5,000 and make 20% you have made $1,000. That's not worth the effort. But at say 100,000 your 20% is starting to be real money!!
Be clear to yourself that you are doing this for the money. Any other reason just gives you an easy out.
4) The most important number to look at is draw down, not sharp ratio. I see lost of people on quantopian show great backtested algos that return 200% over 5 years, but have a 70% draw down at one point.
Most people don't have the psychology to loose money. At 10% down you start to question yourself. At 20% down you get really grumpy in all aspects of your life. Most people don't have the ability to let their positions fall to 30% down. If your backtest has a draw down of more than 30% you don't have a workable algo.....period.
Sharpe ratio is great if you are an HFT firm trying to decide how to divvy up your money across 30 successful algos. You don't have 30 successful aglo's. You will be lucky to have one.
5) Don't use leverage....... you can break the other rules, this one you can't. I've seen people go bankrupt. Don't use leverage.
- manishsharan 10y ago@chollida1 , you should write a book; help drive Michael Lewis' point home. In my last project for a brokerage system, I developed features for day traders. What was most surprising to me how much money the brokerage system generated for the bank regardless of the outcomes for the day traders.
- jdmichal 10y agoWith commissions per trade, brokerages love day traders. The more activity, the more money they make. They hate people that buy a stock with 3% dividend yield and don't touch it for 10 years.
- manishsharan 10y agoIts not just the trades that generate fees; the application enables you to borrow money with a click of button ( kind of like how they place ATMs near slot machines). The trader pays a borrowing fees plus interest.
- TheOtherHobbes 10y ago"Be the farm, not the livestock."
- infinite8s 10y agoOr sell the shovels, don't dig for gold.
- icantdrive55 10y agoIf you get to 5, make sure you are judgement proof, and any loaned money is unsecured credit card money. I honestly couldn't care less about credit card money losses, but I've seen too many people with assets(home, profitable website, really good job, nice cars) get reamed in bankruptcy court. Or, they lie about assets. Lie about assets, but make sure they never show up anywhere. And just because you lied about your income on that cc form; in 99 percent of the time, it won't be mentioned in bankruptcy court. Credit card companies use your credit credit score to give you of money, and I believe they still redline(give more to certain individuals). Bankruptcy lawyers know most people lie on those cc applications. Yes, it's technically fraud, but try to prove it. They just don't. Nolo Press has a glaring error concerning income, fraud, and potential bankruptablity. It think newer editions corrected it? If you get onto financial troubles, try to be proactive. Learn about what assets are legal to transfer. Learn about statue of limitations. Protect yourself from these bottom feeders. (I don't want to debate anyone on the ethics of the cc industry. I just got a cc plea offering me a 29 percent offer, and if I could do it again, I would have ripped up that first cc card sent to me upon graduation, endorsed by my school.)