3 ms·

I'm not a fan of the kernel-up/desktop-down dichotomy, but please remember that "1. User's needs/wants and 2. User's application" are a) not necessarily desktop

I'm not a fan of the kernel-up/desktop-down dichotomy, but please remember that "1. User's needs/wants and 2. User's application" are a) not necessarily desktop applications (in fact, for 99% of the places where Linux is deployed on this planet, it's anything but desktop applications) and b) depend on systems software, which is anything but pleasant to write and integrate with community non-players like systemd. This binary, "user needs = true, programmer needs = irrelevant" dichotomy is very toxic to an environment that still, by and large, depends on community support for its existence.

rkangel 10y ago
> in fact, for 99% of the places where Linux is deployed on this planet, it's anything but desktop applications Don't forget that by device count, by far the largest deployment of Linux is Android. Technically not 'desktop', but close enough in this categorisation.
- notalaser 10y ago
  I stand corrected :-). However, Android is far more restrictive in the type of applications that run on it and in the type of environment that they run in, and runs a very different stack of system tools (which doesn't include systemd). My exposure to writing Android applications is far too limited to comment on the matter without making a fool of myself.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Despite what many think, Android is not the same as GNU/Linux. The NDK is so constrained, with quite a few API features removed (e.g. no UNIX IPC APIs), that Google could replace the kernel by something else and only the OEMs would notice. Access to native code is only there for games and implementing Java native methods. Google likes it so much that Brillo makes these constraints even more explicit, although it is all native code.
- snaky 10y ago
  I'm not so sure. I don't have a numbers, but if we count all the embedded Linux devices from routers to wearables and smart-meters, and all the Linux server VMs running this very second at all the cloud providers worldwide - I'm not sure Android would win.
  - rkangel 10y ago
    If you were to count all of the embedded Linux devices (wearables, routers, smart meter) together in one category along with server VMs, then you might win. But that isn't a fair comparison. I didn't say that Android was the majority of deployments, just the largest group.

rkangel 10y ago

> in fact, for 99% of the places where Linux is deployed on this planet, it's anything but desktop applications Don't forget that by device count, by far the largest deployment of Linux is Android. Technically not 'desktop', but close enough in this categorisation.

notalaser 10y ago
I stand corrected :-). However, Android is far more restrictive in the type of applications that run on it and in the type of environment that they run in, and runs a very different stack of system tools (which doesn't include systemd). My exposure to writing Android applications is far too limited to comment on the matter without making a fool of myself.
pjmlp 10y ago
Despite what many think, Android is not the same as GNU/Linux. The NDK is so constrained, with quite a few API features removed (e.g. no UNIX IPC APIs), that Google could replace the kernel by something else and only the OEMs would notice. Access to native code is only there for games and implementing Java native methods. Google likes it so much that Brillo makes these constraints even more explicit, although it is all native code.
snaky 10y ago
I'm not so sure. I don't have a numbers, but if we count all the embedded Linux devices from routers to wearables and smart-meters, and all the Linux server VMs running this very second at all the cloud providers worldwide - I'm not sure Android would win.
- rkangel 10y ago
  If you were to count all of the embedded Linux devices (wearables, routers, smart meter) together in one category along with server VMs, then you might win. But that isn't a fair comparison. I didn't say that Android was the majority of deployments, just the largest group.