35 ms·

Consciousness must exploit growing entropy somehow - otherwise we'd be completely deterministic and consciousness (as an orthogonal consequence of free will) co

by zamalek 10y ago

Consciousness must exploit growing entropy somehow - otherwise we'd be completely deterministic and consciousness (as an orthogonal consequence of free will) could not exist.

deutronium 10y ago
Does having consciousness mean we can't be completely deterministic?
- zamalek 10y ago
  I struggle to determine how we would evolve into that minima without opportunity for free will, without producing a complex solution.
tremon 10y ago
otherwise we'd be completely deterministic Why? The engineering definition of deterministic implies predictable outcomes given a known internal state. Are you suggesting that we're already at the level where we can accurately and fully measure a human brain's internal state?
- zamalek 10y ago
  This is a philosophical discussion because neither the deterministic mind nor the non-deterministic mind can be disproven for exactly the reason that you specify. Scientifically measuring consciousness could be a fool's errand: the very nature of it is subjective. That does not mean that we cannot discuss the likelihood of each explanation, keeping in mind that both explanations could be incorrect. We have Drake's Equation even though, for all we know, nobody has ever seen an extraterrestrial life-form. We have flight because nature demonstrated flight to us: nature continuously demonstrates the capability to evolve quantum machines (e.g. the nose and various other organic processes[1]). Finally, the engineering definition of determinism is not the only definition.[2] [1]: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160715-organisms-might-be-quantum-machines http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160715-organisms-might-be-q... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_system_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_system_(philosop...

35 ms·

Consciousness must exploit growing entropy somehow - otherwise we'd be completely deterministic and consciousness (as an orthogonal consequence of free will) co

by zamalek 10y ago

Consciousness must exploit growing entropy somehow - otherwise we'd be completely deterministic and consciousness (as an orthogonal consequence of free will) could not exist.

deutronium 10y ago
Does having consciousness mean we can't be completely deterministic?
- zamalek 10y ago
  I struggle to determine how we would evolve into that minima without opportunity for free will, without producing a complex solution.
tremon 10y ago
otherwise we'd be completely deterministic Why? The engineering definition of deterministic implies predictable outcomes given a known internal state. Are you suggesting that we're already at the level where we can accurately and fully measure a human brain's internal state?
- zamalek 10y ago
  This is a philosophical discussion because neither the deterministic mind nor the non-deterministic mind can be disproven for exactly the reason that you specify. Scientifically measuring consciousness could be a fool's errand: the very nature of it is subjective. That does not mean that we cannot discuss the likelihood of each explanation, keeping in mind that both explanations could be incorrect. We have Drake's Equation even though, for all we know, nobody has ever seen an extraterrestrial life-form. We have flight because nature demonstrated flight to us: nature continuously demonstrates the capability to evolve quantum machines (e.g. the nose and various other organic processes[1]). Finally, the engineering definition of determinism is not the only definition.[2] [1]: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160715-organisms-might-be-quantum-machines http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160715-organisms-might-be-q... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_system_(philosophy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deterministic_system_(philosop...