4 ms·

Heh, just today I was biking down a hill in a segregated lane. Green lights ahead of me, all the way to the waterfront. Some guy in the crosswalk, going again

by Frondo 10y ago

Heh, just today I was biking down a hill in a segregated lane. Green lights ahead of me, all the way to the waterfront. Some guy in the crosswalk, going against the signal (I have green lights for several blocks), left to right across the street. I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!" He keeps moving, so I start to veer to the left to go around him to the left. THEN he stops, so I yell again, "Keep moving already!" I veer harder left to get around him. I still have green lights, he's going against the signal. He steps backwards!!! Now I'm going to hit him for sure, so I brake hard, skidding down the hill, veering now well out of the segregated lane, into a car lane, barely avoiding a full-on collision. My leg hits his bag, and of course I cuss up a blue streak. I don't get it. I come to a complete stop at stop signs wherever there's any traffic, and I always slow down because cars blow through them constantly. I never cross against lights, and when I cross with lights, I do so with caution because cars blow through those, too. I do see more and more bikes on the roads, though, which makes me happy about cars learning to share the roads a bit. We cyclists pay taxes, too, of course.

SomeHacker44 10y ago
Yep. Pedestrians, especially New Yorkers, are j-walkers. I spent the last 12 days in various places in Japan and boy, there are none of those except in places without crosswalks. It was weird!! But yes, best thing to do is be predictable if you're doing something (even if it is wrong). People sometimes think New Yorkers are crazy drivers. To the inexperienced it probably looks that way. However after driving here most of my life it's just that we learn how all the other New Yorker drivers will react to what's ahead of them so we can react, in a sort of organized chaos. Sometimes, anyway. And we know to give out of state plates and certain vehicles extra "unpredictability" points. It doesn't always help (like when a moron Georgia plate minivan driver decided to merge directly into me at the Brooklyn Bridge entrance from southbound FDR despite being on the wrong side of a solid/dashed lane marker, back was only one lane to the bridge. And then not pull over!!!), though. Even though I am a car owner and driver I would still be an advocate of limiting cars in the city.
- rootusrootus 10y ago
  The 'be predictable if nothing else' advice is critical. Best piece of driving advice I ever got from my dad. I'm currently in Hyderabad on a business trip and the only reason there aren't constant wrecks and fatalities here is because the only rule in the chaos is be predictable.
- danielrhodes 10y ago
  It's the same in Vietnam. Coming from the west, the driving there looks verifiably insane. After a few weeks you learn their rules (or how to compensate for lack thereof) and it doesn't feel as unsafe anymore.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    However, Vietnam's roads are unsafe. I saw five road accidents within a three-week holiday, including one fatality. The statistics are a quick search away, but I suspect accidents are underreported in Vietnam. I saw a motorcyclist hit by a luxury car on a mountain road, just outside a café. Most bystanders seemed more concerned about possible damage to the car, than to the dazed rider. The car driver didn't even get out of the car. A bus ahead of mine slammed the brakes on, and I saw people were running into the street. It took a while for us to pass the commotion, but when we got there I saw a body covered with a sheet of cardboard and a flattened bicycle. The bus driver stopped the bus a few minutes later, and wandered around it waving incense, which he left in a special holder on the number plate. Neither he nor his ticket collector wore their seatbelts when we resumed driving. A man in Hanoi was wandering into the road in a daze, with blood coming from his head. A motorbike was on the road on its side, and a helmet nearby. I think he simply fell off, but I'd guess the helmet wasn't being worn properly.
underwater 10y ago
That sucks, but it's not really a surprise that someone who is startled reacts poorly.
hx87 10y ago
Years of living in third world countries have taught me that if you are going to disregard traffic rules, at least have the courtesy to do so in a predictable manner.
Someone 10y ago
"I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!"" At that time, you should have started braking. The road isn't yours, even if others break/bend the rules, like you do, when you 'never' cross the lights.
- Frondo 10y ago
  Oh, I love you motorists.
  - Someone 10y ago
    I get the impression you think I'm a motorist. If do, why do you think that?
pluma 10y ago
The correct course of action would have been to slow down and anticipate having to come to a full halt if necessary. The pedestrian was defying traffic laws and on the middle of the road -- you shouldn't expect them to behave predictably from there on. In my country driving instruction emphasises the importance of anticipatory and cooperative driving. Anticipatory in this case means taking the high likelihood of further misbehaviour of the pedestrian into account, cooperative means reacting early so you don't further create risks by surprising traffic behind you if you need to come to a full stop later on. This applies to bikes as well as anybody else on the road (including pedestrian). You should generally expect others to follow the rules but if there are indicators they won't (e.g. they're violating them or they're too young or appear confused/erratic) you should anticipate that they might create dangerous situations. So, yes, the pedestrian was obviously and blatantly violating the rules but your description makes you sound equally reckless. If you were going so fast you couldn't slow down enough to mitigate the risk of a collision, you were going too damn fast. Going downhill doesn't mean you're allowed to go full speed, in fact it means quite the opposite. EDIT: The most important takeaway is predictability. Traffic rules are 1/10ths about helping you and 9/10ths about helping other people. Bikes don't strictly need lights for visibility, for example, but riding with a light allows other people to actually see you in suboptimal conditions.

by Frondo 10y ago

SomeHacker44 10y ago

Yep. Pedestrians, especially New Yorkers, are j-walkers. I spent the last 12 days in various places in Japan and boy, there are none of those except in places without crosswalks. It was weird!! But yes, best thing to do is be predictable if you're doing something (even if it is wrong). People sometimes think New Yorkers are crazy drivers. To the inexperienced it probably looks that way. However after driving here most of my life it's just that we learn how all the other New Yorker drivers will react to what's ahead of them so we can react, in a sort of organized chaos. Sometimes, anyway. And we know to give out of state plates and certain vehicles extra "unpredictability" points. It doesn't always help (like when a moron Georgia plate minivan driver decided to merge directly into me at the Brooklyn Bridge entrance from southbound FDR despite being on the wrong side of a solid/dashed lane marker, back was only one lane to the bridge. And then not pull over!!!), though. Even though I am a car owner and driver I would still be an advocate of limiting cars in the city.

rootusrootus 10y ago
The 'be predictable if nothing else' advice is critical. Best piece of driving advice I ever got from my dad. I'm currently in Hyderabad on a business trip and the only reason there aren't constant wrecks and fatalities here is because the only rule in the chaos is be predictable.
danielrhodes 10y ago
It's the same in Vietnam. Coming from the west, the driving there looks verifiably insane. After a few weeks you learn their rules (or how to compensate for lack thereof) and it doesn't feel as unsafe anymore.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  However, Vietnam's roads are unsafe. I saw five road accidents within a three-week holiday, including one fatality. The statistics are a quick search away, but I suspect accidents are underreported in Vietnam. I saw a motorcyclist hit by a luxury car on a mountain road, just outside a café. Most bystanders seemed more concerned about possible damage to the car, than to the dazed rider. The car driver didn't even get out of the car. A bus ahead of mine slammed the brakes on, and I saw people were running into the street. It took a while for us to pass the commotion, but when we got there I saw a body covered with a sheet of cardboard and a flattened bicycle. The bus driver stopped the bus a few minutes later, and wandered around it waving incense, which he left in a special holder on the number plate. Neither he nor his ticket collector wore their seatbelts when we resumed driving. A man in Hanoi was wandering into the road in a daze, with blood coming from his head. A motorbike was on the road on its side, and a helmet nearby. I think he simply fell off, but I'd guess the helmet wasn't being worn properly.

underwater 10y ago

That sucks, but it's not really a surprise that someone who is startled reacts poorly.

hx87 10y ago

Years of living in third world countries have taught me that if you are going to disregard traffic rules, at least have the courtesy to do so in a predictable manner.

Someone 10y ago

"I'm half a block away but I'm going downhill and going pretty fast. I yell, "Watch out!"" At that time, you should have started braking. The road isn't yours, even if others break/bend the rules, like you do, when you 'never' cross the lights.

Frondo 10y ago
Oh, I love you motorists.
- Someone 10y ago
  I get the impression you think I'm a motorist. If do, why do you think that?

pluma 10y ago

The correct course of action would have been to slow down and anticipate having to come to a full halt if necessary. The pedestrian was defying traffic laws and on the middle of the road -- you shouldn't expect them to behave predictably from there on. In my country driving instruction emphasises the importance of anticipatory and cooperative driving. Anticipatory in this case means taking the high likelihood of further misbehaviour of the pedestrian into account, cooperative means reacting early so you don't further create risks by surprising traffic behind you if you need to come to a full stop later on. This applies to bikes as well as anybody else on the road (including pedestrian). You should generally expect others to follow the rules but if there are indicators they won't (e.g. they're violating them or they're too young or appear confused/erratic) you should anticipate that they might create dangerous situations. So, yes, the pedestrian was obviously and blatantly violating the rules but your description makes you sound equally reckless. If you were going so fast you couldn't slow down enough to mitigate the risk of a collision, you were going too damn fast. Going downhill doesn't mean you're allowed to go full speed, in fact it means quite the opposite. EDIT: The most important takeaway is predictability. Traffic rules are 1/10ths about helping you and 9/10ths about helping other people. Bikes don't strictly need lights for visibility, for example, but riding with a light allows other people to actually see you in suboptimal conditions.