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I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here (bicyclists need to be

I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here (bicyclists need to be licensed! bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers! we shouldn't have bicyclists on many roads because cars go too fast!). Instead, I'll say that just as people walking need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways - these are called sidewalks - so too people on bicycles need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways - these are called protected bike lanes, or cycle tracks, or various other names. For some recent commentary on this topic from Boston, see the following. The first is from a columnist, and the second from the President of the Boston City Council: https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/08/12/bikes/yOFRBYH8zy5jBiVEFYUUVN/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/08/12/bikes/yOFRBYH... https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/07/11/the-road-fear-free-biking-boston/UBnj30slkPwBIzggL70uwJ/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/07/11/the-road-fear...

lorenzk 10y ago
You will like this website: http://cyclingfallacies.com/ http://cyclingfallacies.com/
oarsinsync 10y ago
> I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here ... bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers In the UK, all vehicles on the road are required to abide by the highway code. Yep, that means bicycles have to follow the same rules as drivers. In the 1990s, schools in the UK ran cycling courses to ensure that children as young as 9 were already learning the highway code, and would be able to cycle on the roads safely. The London police to this day continue to run cycling courses to provide the same level of training. I can't speak to the rest, nor in other countries, but in the UK, it is absolutely not foolish, but actually required by law, for cyclists to follow the same rules as drivers.
- Anasufovic 10y ago
  In California, bicycles also must follow the same rules as other vehicles. It is unlikely that is the issue in San Francisco, it is more of a lack of respect for bike lanes and seeing it as an inconvenience. Our culture here is so car oriented that it is showing its ugly side from every angle.
- gaff33 10y ago
  This is what happens when bikes follow rules designed for cars: http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-what-happened-when-bicyclists-obeyed-traffic-laws-along-the-wiggle-yesterday http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-wh... It's patently stupid to have the same rules for bikes as it is for cars since they are completely different vehicles. Now perhaps this is a case of semantics: The Highway Code has rules for all users of highways, but obviously within those rules some apply to cars, some to pedestrians, and some to cyclists. Still point remains that the specific rules are different depending on what vehicle you're in, and we'd be wise to think critically about this. A good example of this is the Idaho Stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
  - soneil 10y ago
    This is the crux of the issue. Many of the laws we're supposed to follow aren't fit for purpose. I do stop at red lights - and I can tell you it pisses people off no end. People want to gun it off the lights, and instead they're stuck behind me. I have been involved in an 'accident' where the driver behind me tried to overtake off the lights, through the junction, and into the traffic island on the other side. At the same time, it's obvious cyclists don't get carte blanche either. Anyone who's seen a bicycle plow through a pedestrian crossing like a god-given right, can see that much. We need rules that make sense, and then enforce them. Meet us in the middle. Trying to enforce rules that don't make sense doesn't work (and not just for us - many of these cause us to frustrate or hinder other road users too)
    - Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
      Yep. I observe red lights in London. I observe red lights in Oxford. Locations where, however imperfectly, the highway authorities consider cyclists in the design process. I used to work in Burton-on-Trent (ex-industrial town in the English Midlands). My daily commute involved one particular intersection so badly designed that the only way to avoid a dangerous and potentially fatal car/bike interaction, if you were at the front of the queue, was to set off 5 seconds before the lights went green. (It has since been redesigned, thankfully.) If you build infrastructure and formulate laws to benefit motorists and to potentially kill cyclists, don't be surprised if cyclists break those laws.
igf 10y ago
> Instead, I'll say that just as people walking need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways - these are called sidewalks - so too people on bicycles need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways Where do we stop? Should we have skateboard lanes as well? Unicycle lanes? Lanes for people who wish to taxi down the road in a Learjet? We can't accommodate every form of transportation with its own infrastructure.
- pedalpete 10y ago
  No you can't accommodate every form of transportation, but you can have Motor Vehicle, Person Powered Vehicle, Person. Comparing Unicycles and skateboards is like saying we have to have a different lane for each type of truck, car, SUV, motorcycle, etc etc.
- URSpider94 10y ago
  Would you agree that we should choose which forms of transit to accommodate based on their needs and their utility? Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in, and which can serve a large portion of the transit needs of a city in relatively little space and with zero carbon footprint. Getting more people out of cars (and off of buses) and onto bikes requires making them feel safe and unstressed. The best way to do that is to create dedicated bikeways. The Dutch have been doing this for 70 years or so, it works amazingly well, so much so that people don't even wear bike helmets! Also, nobody is saying that Segways, skateboards, inline skates, unicycles, etc. wouldn't be welcome in the bike lane, if they can stay in their lane and move predictably at a speed compatible with cycling.
  - jomamaxx 10y ago
    "Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in," Many do, but it's very small about 2%. In SF it's 4$, NY it's 1%. And overall in America - it's negligible (outside of cities it's impractical). So - bikes are a distant 4th after cars, public transit and walking. It's not going to change.
gambiting 10y ago
>> bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers I mean....where the hell do you live where they do not? Everything about giving priority, obeying traffic lights, one-way streets, should absolutely apply to bicycles, how can it possibly not?
- dagw 10y ago
  Well it technically does apply in a purely legal sense. However many cyclists don't really care and I've never heard of a any cyclist suffering any legal consequence because of this.
  - Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
    Over 11,000 fines were issued to cyclists for breaking traffic laws in the UK in 2013.
- Thlom 10y ago
  Copenhagen? Amsterdam?
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    In both cities, you'll see lots of "Except cyclists" plaques beneath prohibition signs. That leads to more respect for the rules where the prohibition includes cyclists. (Though it's not 100% followed — but it isn't by drivers either.) In the UK, where cyclists are generally ignored, I'd regularly ignore one-way restrictions. Most have clearly been implemented to direct cars, without any thought to cyclists.

lorenzk 10y ago

You will like this website: http://cyclingfallacies.com/ http://cyclingfallacies.com/

oarsinsync 10y ago

> I don't have time now to write a comment laying out a comprehensive rebuttal of all the foolishness that some people have suggested here ... bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers In the UK, all vehicles on the road are required to abide by the highway code. Yep, that means bicycles have to follow the same rules as drivers. In the 1990s, schools in the UK ran cycling courses to ensure that children as young as 9 were already learning the highway code, and would be able to cycle on the roads safely. The London police to this day continue to run cycling courses to provide the same level of training. I can't speak to the rest, nor in other countries, but in the UK, it is absolutely not foolish, but actually required by law, for cyclists to follow the same rules as drivers.

Anasufovic 10y ago
In California, bicycles also must follow the same rules as other vehicles. It is unlikely that is the issue in San Francisco, it is more of a lack of respect for bike lanes and seeing it as an inconvenience. Our culture here is so car oriented that it is showing its ugly side from every angle.
gaff33 10y ago
This is what happens when bikes follow rules designed for cars: http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-what-happened-when-bicyclists-obeyed-traffic-laws-along-the-wiggle-yesterday http://archives.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2015/07/30/this-is-wh... It's patently stupid to have the same rules for bikes as it is for cars since they are completely different vehicles. Now perhaps this is a case of semantics: The Highway Code has rules for all users of highways, but obviously within those rules some apply to cars, some to pedestrians, and some to cyclists. Still point remains that the specific rules are different depending on what vehicle you're in, and we'd be wise to think critically about this. A good example of this is the Idaho Stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop
- soneil 10y ago
  This is the crux of the issue. Many of the laws we're supposed to follow aren't fit for purpose. I do stop at red lights - and I can tell you it pisses people off no end. People want to gun it off the lights, and instead they're stuck behind me. I have been involved in an 'accident' where the driver behind me tried to overtake off the lights, through the junction, and into the traffic island on the other side. At the same time, it's obvious cyclists don't get carte blanche either. Anyone who's seen a bicycle plow through a pedestrian crossing like a god-given right, can see that much. We need rules that make sense, and then enforce them. Meet us in the middle. Trying to enforce rules that don't make sense doesn't work (and not just for us - many of these cause us to frustrate or hinder other road users too)
  - Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
    Yep. I observe red lights in London. I observe red lights in Oxford. Locations where, however imperfectly, the highway authorities consider cyclists in the design process. I used to work in Burton-on-Trent (ex-industrial town in the English Midlands). My daily commute involved one particular intersection so badly designed that the only way to avoid a dangerous and potentially fatal car/bike interaction, if you were at the front of the queue, was to set off 5 seconds before the lights went green. (It has since been redesigned, thankfully.) If you build infrastructure and formulate laws to benefit motorists and to potentially kill cyclists, don't be surprised if cyclists break those laws.

igf 10y ago

> Instead, I'll say that just as people walking need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways - these are called sidewalks - so too people on bicycles need physically protected infrastructure on essentially all roadways Where do we stop? Should we have skateboard lanes as well? Unicycle lanes? Lanes for people who wish to taxi down the road in a Learjet? We can't accommodate every form of transportation with its own infrastructure.

pedalpete 10y ago
No you can't accommodate every form of transportation, but you can have Motor Vehicle, Person Powered Vehicle, Person. Comparing Unicycles and skateboards is like saying we have to have a different lane for each type of truck, car, SUV, motorcycle, etc etc.
URSpider94 10y ago
Would you agree that we should choose which forms of transit to accommodate based on their needs and their utility? Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in, and which can serve a large portion of the transit needs of a city in relatively little space and with zero carbon footprint. Getting more people out of cars (and off of buses) and onto bikes requires making them feel safe and unstressed. The best way to do that is to create dedicated bikeways. The Dutch have been doing this for 70 years or so, it works amazingly well, so much so that people don't even wear bike helmets! Also, nobody is saying that Segways, skateboards, inline skates, unicycles, etc. wouldn't be welcome in the bike lane, if they can stay in their lane and move predictably at a speed compatible with cycling.
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  "Cycling is a well-established form of transit that many people participate in," Many do, but it's very small about 2%. In SF it's 4$, NY it's 1%. And overall in America - it's negligible (outside of cities it's impractical). So - bikes are a distant 4th after cars, public transit and walking. It's not going to change.

gambiting 10y ago

>> bicyclists should have to follow exactly the same rules as drivers I mean....where the hell do you live where they do not? Everything about giving priority, obeying traffic lights, one-way streets, should absolutely apply to bicycles, how can it possibly not?

dagw 10y ago
Well it technically does apply in a purely legal sense. However many cyclists don't really care and I've never heard of a any cyclist suffering any legal consequence because of this.
- Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
  Over 11,000 fines were issued to cyclists for breaking traffic laws in the UK in 2013.
Thlom 10y ago
Copenhagen? Amsterdam?
- Symbiote 10y ago
  In both cities, you'll see lots of "Except cyclists" plaques beneath prohibition signs. That leads to more respect for the rules where the prohibition includes cyclists. (Though it's not 100% followed — but it isn't by drivers either.) In the UK, where cyclists are generally ignored, I'd regularly ignore one-way restrictions. Most have clearly been implemented to direct cars, without any thought to cyclists.