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Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be cons

Does this mean remoting is available? I can't find anything recent and definitive, but the FAQ still says no. I've never understood how Wayland can even be considered usable without it. "The user owns exactly one computer" hasn't been true for a decade or more.

hactually 10y ago
What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  I have access to many computers but only one of them is literally plugged into my monitor. Can I use Wayland over a network?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    One could use Windows and OS X machines that way since forever, without them offering "Remote X11" sessions, so yes...
    - AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
      Um, that may be true on paper, but instead of using bandwidth heavy VNC or braindead systems that require you to log off locally before you can login remotely, X11 offers you a responsive and flexible solution.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Jasper_ 10y ago
Wayland is a protocol for efficient buffer sharing and windowing semantics. It can be seen as the equivalent to CreateWindow and friends on Windows -- we use binary protocols instead of C APIs, but the idea is the same. What Wayland is not is a protocol designed for remote transport over TCP. Neither was X11, mind you. There are other, better, protocols like this, like RDP, VNC, and SPICE. These protocols use techniques from video compression and instead of shared memory. You can use VNC and RDP with Wayland.
- lokedhs 10y ago
  What do you mean when you say "neither was X11"? X11 most definitely is designed to be network transparent. After all, that was the whole concept behind X-terminals. Also, VNC is nothing like the network transparency of X11. In X, I am able to run a single application on one machine, connecting to an X server running on a different machine. The application will be a first-class citizen in the user environment. This is in contrast to the VNC case where it lives in a separate desktop that is forwarded as a whole to be displayed in a window on the receiver side.
AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard. The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this demphasizes the issue, leaving it to insufficient VNC, dead projects like NX, or not yet production ready projects like X2Go (once they support Wayland that is).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cmurf 10y ago
  Guacamole? https://guacamole.incubator.apache.org/ https://guacamole.incubator.apache.org/
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  > The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. That seems to be their decision but I can't imagine what's motivating them. How is the non-remote use case even relevant at this point? Is Wayland intended for console gaming?
zamalek 10y ago
If you need that feature, X11 is probably for you. Not supporting a feature is a difficult, albiet important, choice. If it's not remoting, it's 100 other features that would turn Wayland into X11. Omission differentiates as much as innovation.

hactually 10y ago

What do you mean by remoting? Are you talking about X11 forwarding in which case it's highly unlikely due to it not being X11.

prodigal_erik 10y ago
I have access to many computers but only one of them is literally plugged into my monitor. Can I use Wayland over a network?
- coldtea 10y ago
  One could use Windows and OS X machines that way since forever, without them offering "Remote X11" sessions, so yes...
  - AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
    Um, that may be true on paper, but instead of using bandwidth heavy VNC or braindead systems that require you to log off locally before you can login remotely, X11 offers you a responsive and flexible solution.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

Jasper_ 10y ago

Wayland is a protocol for efficient buffer sharing and windowing semantics. It can be seen as the equivalent to CreateWindow and friends on Windows -- we use binary protocols instead of C APIs, but the idea is the same. What Wayland is not is a protocol designed for remote transport over TCP. Neither was X11, mind you. There are other, better, protocols like this, like RDP, VNC, and SPICE. These protocols use techniques from video compression and instead of shared memory. You can use VNC and RDP with Wayland.

lokedhs 10y ago
What do you mean when you say "neither was X11"? X11 most definitely is designed to be network transparent. After all, that was the whole concept behind X-terminals. Also, VNC is nothing like the network transparency of X11. In X, I am able to run a single application on one machine, connecting to an X server running on a different machine. The application will be a first-class citizen in the user environment. This is in contrast to the VNC case where it lives in a separate desktop that is forwarded as a whole to be displayed in a window on the receiver side.

AnonymousPlanet 10y ago

I used to think the same way regarding Wayland. But then I realized the abysmal state of X11 remoting: most applications I would like to use remotely are basically sending images over the network, instead of just API calls. Try using Firefox over X11 forwarding. I think some battles have been lost in this regard. The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. You could argue that this demphasizes the issue, leaving it to insufficient VNC, dead projects like NX, or not yet production ready projects like X2Go (once they support Wayland that is).

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cmurf 10y ago
Guacamole? https://guacamole.incubator.apache.org/ https://guacamole.incubator.apache.org/
prodigal_erik 10y ago
> The creators of Wayland decided that it is not their task to handle remoting. That seems to be their decision but I can't imagine what's motivating them. How is the non-remote use case even relevant at this point? Is Wayland intended for console gaming?

zamalek 10y ago

If you need that feature, X11 is probably for you. Not supporting a feature is a difficult, albiet important, choice. If it's not remoting, it's 100 other features that would turn Wayland into X11. Omission differentiates as much as innovation.