34 ms·

Am I the only one bothered by an American writer using the term "expat" to describe himself and other foreigners in a country, when the standard term used for t

• sakabaro 10y ago
  They will probably vote Clinton, so they think they are not racist.
• dhimes 10y ago
  I think it depends on your reference. With reference to your home country, you are an expat. Referring to your new home, you are an immigrant.
  • keerthiko 10y ago
    I don't think that's the usage here at all. The author is talking the entire time from within China and the perspective of culture within China, and refers to himself and his fellow foreigners as expats. By your description he should be using the term immigrant, since he isn't writing the article from the perspective of American/European soil.
    • deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  • madaxe_again 10y ago
    No, you're an emigrant with reference to your "home country". But I suppose that sounds too much like immigrant, which has become an epithet.
    • jacobolus 10y ago
      Expatriate is a synonym for emigrant. The word expatriate emphasizes the current status living outside the native country, while the word emigrant emphasizes the traveling process.
      • madaxe_again 10y ago
        It's a synonym for immigrant, exclusively for white people. Emigrant is what an immigrant is relative to their home country. The verb is "emigration", which mirrors "immigration". Don't take my word for it, refer to a dictionary, or this article. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/2015/mar/13/white-people-expats-immigrants-migration https://www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals...
        • mnglkhn2 10y ago
          You're immigrant to the host country and an emigrant to your country of origin. Exit/Emigrate from country A and In/Immigrate to country B. Expat somehow has the connotation that you will return, which is the equivalent of migrant worker. Immigrant assumes one wants to make the new host country a permanent one.
        • jacobolus 10y ago
          We’re speaking the English language here, and the usual context where this word comes up is conversations among English people, or Americans, or more generally English-speaking Europeans ... England has a long colonial history, wherein they sent colonists, soldiers, merchants, engineers, diplomats, bureaucrats, etc. to far flung parts of their world, inside and outside their empire. Some of these folks moved around from country to country, or migrated seasonally back to their homeland, while a few settled down in their adopted countries. Some of these folks are unquestionably emigrants, while others are transients, but their minority enclave communities can be easily summed up by calling them expatriates. A description like expatriate community is more informative than emigrant enclave or whatever. The word expatriate emphasizes that these folks are (in general) not intending to assimilate, and see themselves as foreigners in the countries where they are living. The same word could equally be applied to “non-white” migrants to “white” countries, if you wanted. I have heard such usage before, and it was not controversial or confusing in context. But of course any words related to migration have racial/class overtones. We’re talking about humans here. Pretty much everything people do involves some amount of social posturing.
• madaxe_again 10y ago
  It's the same in the UK. Brits living and working in Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. self-identify as expats. Tell them they're immigrants, and you'll get a violent response. Honestly, I don't get the distinction.
  • GarrisonPrime 10y ago
    An expat remains a citizen of their origin country, or otherwise makes a temporary move. An immigrant becomes a citizen of their destination country, or otherwise makes a permanent move.
    • madaxe_again 10y ago
      Not true. My cousins who were born in Hong Kong, are British by ancestry and Australian by citizenship, and describe themselves as expats, even though they've spent their entire lives in HK. It's purely a "us vs them" distinction.
• GoToRO 10y ago
  for me you are an expat if you are 1-2 years in one country, and then another, and then another. You follow the business with no intention to settle in one country.
• mc32 10y ago
  Expat is typically someone who is sent to work for a company's foreign offices/overseas offices and who will return to their home country after their "tour" is over. I.e. their residency depends on their company's sponsorship --the company you work for is doing all the paperwork and paying all incidental costs for you. An immigrant is someone who moves overseas or to a foreign country on their own accord without the help of a company. You're getting visas and residency on your own. So for example, a Kiwi working on the production lines in Toyota city is likely an immigrant. A Kiwi manager in finance in Toyoda city is likely an ex-pat. It's also likely these two don't run in the same circles.
  • dhimes 10y ago
    That's an interesting use (I've had friends use it too) but not necessarily by definition. Websters has two versions. The first has two definitions: (1)(Vb) banish; exile (2) (vb) to withdraw oneself from residence in or allegiance to one's native country. They indicate that it can be a noun, but without further definition. Note the implication that it's not voluntary, or at least under duress (a la Snowden), and not necessarily with the intent of returning. Second version is an adjective, meaning "living in a foreign land."
  • dalke 10y ago
    Your definition is not correct, or at least it's incomplete. There are many retirees who call themselves an "expat", such as those at http://money.cnn.com/gallery/retirement/2014/10/14/expat-retirement/index.html http://money.cnn.com/gallery/retirement/2014/10/14/expat-ret... . Arthur C. Clarke was a British expat in Sri Lanka. He was not sent there by a company. Here's the owner of a company which hires Mexican agricultural workers for 10 months of the year - http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-guest-worker-20130331-dto-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-guest-worker-20130331-dt... : > He spends $1,000 per worker for visas, consulate fees and transportation to North Carolina. He's required to pay for their housing, and he estimates he has spent more than $80,000 building a house on his property, plus $36,000 to buy a mobile home and $5,000 a year to rent an apartment for the 48 workers he employs during the growing season. The government makes him pay them $9.68 an hour, which is about one-third higher than the minimum wage in the state, and he spends thousands of dollars on workers' compensation insurance. Oddly, people rarely call those Mexican's "ex-pats." The only difference from your definition is that they work outside, and not in an office, no? If so, isn't that the sort of socioeconomic class discrimination that keerthiko pointed out?
• tsm 10y ago
  As a former expat, my understanding of the distinction is that expats realize they're temporarily in the foreign country, and are not consciously working to "go native". Immigrants believe that they've moved for good, and are more likely than not to, for example, hope that their children are a better cultural fit with the host country than the parents were.
  • dalke 10y ago
    Do you consider temporary agricultural workers from Mexico to be expats?
  • bjourne 10y ago
    There are many Americans and British in Sweden who have settled and married Swedish people and call themselves expats. Really seems like keerthiko has a good point about the word expat just being a fancier word for immigrant.
    • dalke 10y ago
      I am US citizen living permanently in Sweden who calls myself an immigrant. I did so because I agree with keerthiko. I think "expat" is mostly a code phrase for "I come from a rich country" or "I come from the professional or upper class". It isn't simply a fancier word but I think also a snobbier word. Some expats will 'react violently' if you call them an immigrant, quoting madaxe_again at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12332279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12332279 .
• RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 10y ago
  Interesting, I didn't know there's a negative connotation to the term. I thought generally the difference between an expat and an immigrant is that the former intends to return at some point, while the latter intends to settle permanently. An expat could be a migrant worker, but not necessarily. For instance, one could go to a foreign country for university, and then decides to stay after graduation. He'd probably have to find a job, yes, but I wouldn't call him a migrant worker because he didn't emigrate for employment reasons. Obviously, words are imprecise and there are overlaps, though this is the first time I've heard that expat could have a negative association.
  • dalke 10y ago
    Do you call a Mexican who comes into the US for 10 months under an agricultural work visa an expat? If so, you are one of the very few. People don't usually talk about, say, "Mexican ex-pats in the Central Valley", even to describe those who are planning to return to their family back home, and sending money home to support that family.
• ta_donk_gt 10y ago
  Most of the usage of "expat" that I have seen has been as a way to differentiate between living in another country while remaining primarily a U.S. citizen (and still paying U.S. taxes, etc.) vs. renouncing your U.S. citizenship and leaving forever. The largest segment of people I see are retirees collecting U.S. social security and living abroad somewhere with nicer weather and a modest cost of living. Plenty of younger people seeking to make a living in another country as well, but again, always with a U.S. citizen mindset, not as someone assimilating into the foreign culture. Regarding the "anti-immigrant" sentiment, this has nothing to do with things like using the term expat instead of immigrant. As much as everyone wants to demonize and vilify, it is probably best to actually understand where these feelings are coming from. It comes from the wage-lowering and job loss that is associated with immigration, and those feeling build up over time. No matter which side of the aisle you fall on, the data is clear, less immigration leads to lower unemployment and higher wages within a region, and more immigration leads to the opposite. The tradeoff is that growth is more difficult and limited with less immigration. In theory, we try to find the right balance between growth and standard of living for the existing population. In practice, however, only the people at the top have control of the politicians, and that balance will continue to slide towards lower labor costs. Things are so polarized in this country, and it has become standard to label anyone we disagree with as some sort of "*ist", in order to marginalize them and prevent further discussion on the topic. No matter the issue, when a group feels strongly that they are on the receiving end of unfair behavior, many times there are actual justifiable underlying issues.
  • dalke 10y ago
    You do realize that most US citizens who permanently live outside of the US do not give up their U.S. citizenship. Only a small number renunciations - a few thousand - occur each year. Renunciation has never been a part of the discussion over the classism in the term "expat". Expats are immigrants, so if more immigration leads to higher unemployment then more expats leads to higher unemployment.
    • ta_donk_gt 10y ago
      As I stated, "usage I have seen", or how I generally see it used as opposed to the dictionary definition. Either way, the point is it is not a term invented to insult immigrants into the U.S. and deify U.S. citizens living abroad in comparison. > Expats are immigrants, so if more immigration leads to higher unemployment then more expats leads to higher unemployment. Depends how you are using the term. In any case, a larger labor pool in the U.S. means less demand for workers (lower wages and higher unemployment). U.S. expats/emigrants working in another country would have that same effect on the host country as immigrants to the U.S., though again, a significant percentage of American expats are retirees living on social security, and I just don't think there is enough data to identify net results on either the host country or the U.S. (since healthcare costs or lack thereof would be the real differentiator there).