3 ms·

Why do you need managers if there is no one to manage.

a3n 10y ago
You obviously need many fewer managers in that scenario. But I think you would need humans to decide that a business should exist and start it, and to continually set direction and goals (beyond mere financial goals). It will be interesting to see the first businesses that are run almost entirely by algorithms. If that becomes common, or the norm, why would we even need separate companies? Maybe the algorithms will merge their "businesses." Maybe Skynet starts not via military algorithms but business algorithms. EDIT: I recently left a medical device company, whose products without a doubt save and improve lives. This business was started decades ago, with two obvious goals: make money, and improving lives. Part of the direction and goals for that company has always been service to society (humans), and I know that many or most of the people working there think of it in exactly that way: they're serving society (and happily making money while doing it). That's how I felt about it. What incentive would an algorithm have for starting and running a business like that? Particularly as fewer humans are required to serve that and other "businesses" (processes?), might such a company be seen as a waste of resources? Why not just let most of the humans die? But then, following that thought to its sci-fi conclusion, once human civilization has all but disappeared, what would the purpose of any Skynet-like business algorithm be? Would it start shutting itself off, business/process by business/process?
- icebraining 10y ago
  Why would an algorithm need incentives? What incentives does Quicksort have for sorting a list I give it? If we design and/or generate an algorithm for starting and running business, that's what it'll do. There's no extra "incentive" needed.
  - a3n 10y ago
    But a successful algorithm wouldn't start businesses that aren't needed. Which means that there's a "needed" parameter. Which algorithmically begs the question "am 'I' (the algorithm/business) needed?"
    - icebraining 10y ago
      No, not really. Taking a current example, Kubernetes includes an algorithm that decides which processes are to be run and which aren't. That doesn't mean it will suddenly decide to apply that algorithm and kill itself!
- laksjd 10y ago
  Google 'paperclip optimizer', it's a common keyword for discussions about AI and their objectives :)
- parenthephobia 10y ago
  "Algorithms" don't have incentives. "Algorithms" do not seek to conserve resources. "Algorithms" do not seek to shut down purposeless activity, or indeed determine what activity is purposeless. An algorithm might do some of those things, if the human that created it wanted that to be the case, or they didn't but the implementation was buggy. A human writing an algorithm to run an automated medical device company would presumably include some terms which would ensure that the company's resources were used in a way that served the public good, to the extent that that was compatible with whatever other objectives that human had for the algorithm, such as making profit, or avoiding kinds of research that human considered immoral. A human who writes an algorithm to run a company which prioritises "something" over the survival of human civilisation and resists any attempt to adjust its priorities once the error is obvious enough to be noticed, and then runs that algorithm on a system with the capability to actually cause the end of human civilization, is a super-villain or a super-idiot.
  - a3n 10y ago
    > a super-villain or a super-idiot. Both of which exist, and have enough effect that they have to be considered and guarded against. And sometimes they succeed. :)
- Isamu 10y ago
  Services such as Google search probably already have enough information to infer by ML that there is a demand for products in a certain area that is being underserved.

a3n 10y ago

You obviously need many fewer managers in that scenario. But I think you would need humans to decide that a business should exist and start it, and to continually set direction and goals (beyond mere financial goals). It will be interesting to see the first businesses that are run almost entirely by algorithms. If that becomes common, or the norm, why would we even need separate companies? Maybe the algorithms will merge their "businesses." Maybe Skynet starts not via military algorithms but business algorithms. EDIT: I recently left a medical device company, whose products without a doubt save and improve lives. This business was started decades ago, with two obvious goals: make money, and improving lives. Part of the direction and goals for that company has always been service to society (humans), and I know that many or most of the people working there think of it in exactly that way: they're serving society (and happily making money while doing it). That's how I felt about it. What incentive would an algorithm have for starting and running a business like that? Particularly as fewer humans are required to serve that and other "businesses" (processes?), might such a company be seen as a waste of resources? Why not just let most of the humans die? But then, following that thought to its sci-fi conclusion, once human civilization has all but disappeared, what would the purpose of any Skynet-like business algorithm be? Would it start shutting itself off, business/process by business/process?

icebraining 10y ago
Why would an algorithm need incentives? What incentives does Quicksort have for sorting a list I give it? If we design and/or generate an algorithm for starting and running business, that's what it'll do. There's no extra "incentive" needed.
- a3n 10y ago
  But a successful algorithm wouldn't start businesses that aren't needed. Which means that there's a "needed" parameter. Which algorithmically begs the question "am 'I' (the algorithm/business) needed?"
  - icebraining 10y ago
    No, not really. Taking a current example, Kubernetes includes an algorithm that decides which processes are to be run and which aren't. That doesn't mean it will suddenly decide to apply that algorithm and kill itself!
laksjd 10y ago
Google 'paperclip optimizer', it's a common keyword for discussions about AI and their objectives :)
parenthephobia 10y ago
"Algorithms" don't have incentives. "Algorithms" do not seek to conserve resources. "Algorithms" do not seek to shut down purposeless activity, or indeed determine what activity is purposeless. An algorithm might do some of those things, if the human that created it wanted that to be the case, or they didn't but the implementation was buggy. A human writing an algorithm to run an automated medical device company would presumably include some terms which would ensure that the company's resources were used in a way that served the public good, to the extent that that was compatible with whatever other objectives that human had for the algorithm, such as making profit, or avoiding kinds of research that human considered immoral. A human who writes an algorithm to run a company which prioritises "something" over the survival of human civilisation and resists any attempt to adjust its priorities once the error is obvious enough to be noticed, and then runs that algorithm on a system with the capability to actually cause the end of human civilization, is a super-villain or a super-idiot.
- a3n 10y ago
  > a super-villain or a super-idiot. Both of which exist, and have enough effect that they have to be considered and guarded against. And sometimes they succeed. :)
Isamu 10y ago
Services such as Google search probably already have enough information to infer by ML that there is a demand for products in a certain area that is being underserved.