4 ms·

Giving up alcohol opened my eyes to the infuriating truth about why women drink

24 points by jaytaylor 10y ago

techer 10y ago
There are so many deeply unhappy and unsatisfied men and women in the world it is truly astonishing.
- stuxnet79 10y ago
  It's astonishing why?
  - techer 10y ago
    4000 years of writing, thought and guidance seems useless to some people. Life is as simple as you make it. Nothing is really new. I speak to as many people in their 70s and 80s and 90s as I can and more often that not they are quite lonely, scared and sad. Obviously I'm not immune to such feelings!
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cuckcuckspruce 10y ago
Typical think piece - someone's inability to manage their life while partaking in a substance is not a personal fault, not something that they alone must bear and abstain from, but a problem with society and the responsibility of others to fix. I'm an alcoholic. Looking at my expense tracking from the first five years out of college and in a developer role shows that I spent more money on booze in those five years than I did on gasoline for my car and groceries. There was not a time when I was out of work (or when I needed to drive - amazingly even alcoholic me wouldn't cross that line) that I wasn't drinking some craft beer or a single malt whiskey or smoking a cigar and playing poker with some bourbon. Unsurprisingly, my personal life was a gigantic mess while I shambled along at my job as a functional alcoholic. I eventually completely gave up alcohol due to the problems I experienced, and I went through about a three year phase that this writer describes, where I ascribed to other people the reason why I personally drank. What I found through that was that I personally drank for unhealthy reasons. When I was unhappy or things were rough, I'd pop open a beer. After a hard day at work I would drain half a bottle of bourbon. Over a long Thanksgiving meal with my overbearing and judgemental family I'd down a bottle of wine myself. I was personally using alcohol to cope with my problems instead of facing them. That does not mean that everybody else in the world does so. Several of my friends can have one beer with dinner and a scotch and soda on poker nights and be perfectly fine and sober to drive home. Most of the people I know can moderate their drinking, except for the other alcoholics in my group of friends who have given up alcohol. So perhaps the writer of this piece should introspect instead of project and fix the issues in their life that are bothering them and learn to let others make mistakes and learn from them instead of taking part in the "silent four-way exchange of dismay, irritation, and bitchiness" they were so proud of.
- sportanova 10y ago
  but it's so much easier to blame it on the patriarchy! Not to mention she's a sexist: "Uber driver who might possibly be a rapist".
theonemind 10y ago
This actually sort of reads like she was just an alcoholic. Everyone's got problems. Every class of people even have problems (men, women, children, white people, black people, etc.)
jimmywanger 10y ago
The thing that most bothers me is she conflates her alcohol addiction with sexism. I know that as a male, I'm generally asked if I want to have a drink if everybody else is having one, and they don't look askance at me if I don't. Trying to bring gender into this thing is pathetic.
- cuckcuckspruce 10y ago
  It appears the author cannot accept that her alcoholism (or "ethanol dependency" as she likely called it) could be solely her fault. She's trying to lay some of the blame for her personal inability to consume alcohol safely and in moderation at the feet of society - society made her do it. That's the thing about being a special snowflake, you have to be unique and perfect or you're just another wet lump.
collyw 10y ago
Sounds like she could do with a drink.
ManlyBread 10y ago
I have no idea what is the premise of the article and what is the problem that the author wants to bring up to the light. The author jumps between anecdotes and some situations from her life that ultimately lead to no conclusions. I stopped reading here: >Is it so hard to work ten hours for your rightful 77% of a salary as this is definitively not true, unless she's okay with this kind of discrimination and did not take it to the court.
tempestn 10y ago
On one hand, I agree with other comments that the author may be overly alert to alcohol dependence signals in society. It has become somewhat of a social norm to joke about using alcohol to get through unpleasantness, but most people I know don't take the jokes literally. That may be difficult to see when you've had difficulty with alcohol in your own life. On the other hand, the challenges she writes about women facing aren't fabricated, and she's giving herself as an example of someone who used alcohol to deal with those challenges. She sees signs that others are doing the same, and is disturbed by it. Even if there's some projection going on there, obviously there are some other women in a similar situation, and maybe this post would be helpful to them. In some professional and social circles, I don't doubt there is also significant pressure on people of both genders, but women especially, to drink with the guys to fit in; perhaps reading this first-hand account of the effects that can have could change behaviours. It may not be perfectly unbiased, but I don't see it as worthless either. Reading some of these comments, I can't help but notice the parallel to the men on the panel discussed in the post. Commenting on the points made is one thing (ideally while trying to understand where the author is coming from more fully), but dismissing the author and her thoughts outright because you feel you know better seems counterproductive at best.

24 points by jaytaylor 10y ago

techer 10y ago

There are so many deeply unhappy and unsatisfied men and women in the world it is truly astonishing.

stuxnet79 10y ago
It's astonishing why?
- techer 10y ago
  4000 years of writing, thought and guidance seems useless to some people. Life is as simple as you make it. Nothing is really new. I speak to as many people in their 70s and 80s and 90s as I can and more often that not they are quite lonely, scared and sad. Obviously I'm not immune to such feelings!

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cuckcuckspruce 10y ago

Typical think piece - someone's inability to manage their life while partaking in a substance is not a personal fault, not something that they alone must bear and abstain from, but a problem with society and the responsibility of others to fix. I'm an alcoholic. Looking at my expense tracking from the first five years out of college and in a developer role shows that I spent more money on booze in those five years than I did on gasoline for my car and groceries. There was not a time when I was out of work (or when I needed to drive - amazingly even alcoholic me wouldn't cross that line) that I wasn't drinking some craft beer or a single malt whiskey or smoking a cigar and playing poker with some bourbon. Unsurprisingly, my personal life was a gigantic mess while I shambled along at my job as a functional alcoholic. I eventually completely gave up alcohol due to the problems I experienced, and I went through about a three year phase that this writer describes, where I ascribed to other people the reason why I personally drank. What I found through that was that I personally drank for unhealthy reasons. When I was unhappy or things were rough, I'd pop open a beer. After a hard day at work I would drain half a bottle of bourbon. Over a long Thanksgiving meal with my overbearing and judgemental family I'd down a bottle of wine myself. I was personally using alcohol to cope with my problems instead of facing them. That does not mean that everybody else in the world does so. Several of my friends can have one beer with dinner and a scotch and soda on poker nights and be perfectly fine and sober to drive home. Most of the people I know can moderate their drinking, except for the other alcoholics in my group of friends who have given up alcohol. So perhaps the writer of this piece should introspect instead of project and fix the issues in their life that are bothering them and learn to let others make mistakes and learn from them instead of taking part in the "silent four-way exchange of dismay, irritation, and bitchiness" they were so proud of.

sportanova 10y ago
but it's so much easier to blame it on the patriarchy! Not to mention she's a sexist: "Uber driver who might possibly be a rapist".

theonemind 10y ago

This actually sort of reads like she was just an alcoholic. Everyone's got problems. Every class of people even have problems (men, women, children, white people, black people, etc.)

jimmywanger 10y ago

The thing that most bothers me is she conflates her alcohol addiction with sexism. I know that as a male, I'm generally asked if I want to have a drink if everybody else is having one, and they don't look askance at me if I don't. Trying to bring gender into this thing is pathetic.

cuckcuckspruce 10y ago
It appears the author cannot accept that her alcoholism (or "ethanol dependency" as she likely called it) could be solely her fault. She's trying to lay some of the blame for her personal inability to consume alcohol safely and in moderation at the feet of society - society made her do it. That's the thing about being a special snowflake, you have to be unique and perfect or you're just another wet lump.

collyw 10y ago

Sounds like she could do with a drink.

ManlyBread 10y ago

I have no idea what is the premise of the article and what is the problem that the author wants to bring up to the light. The author jumps between anecdotes and some situations from her life that ultimately lead to no conclusions. I stopped reading here: >Is it so hard to work ten hours for your rightful 77% of a salary as this is definitively not true, unless she's okay with this kind of discrimination and did not take it to the court.

tempestn 10y ago

On one hand, I agree with other comments that the author may be overly alert to alcohol dependence signals in society. It has become somewhat of a social norm to joke about using alcohol to get through unpleasantness, but most people I know don't take the jokes literally. That may be difficult to see when you've had difficulty with alcohol in your own life. On the other hand, the challenges she writes about women facing aren't fabricated, and she's giving herself as an example of someone who used alcohol to deal with those challenges. She sees signs that others are doing the same, and is disturbed by it. Even if there's some projection going on there, obviously there are some other women in a similar situation, and maybe this post would be helpful to them. In some professional and social circles, I don't doubt there is also significant pressure on people of both genders, but women especially, to drink with the guys to fit in; perhaps reading this first-hand account of the effects that can have could change behaviours. It may not be perfectly unbiased, but I don't see it as worthless either. Reading some of these comments, I can't help but notice the parallel to the men on the panel discussed in the post. Commenting on the points made is one thing (ideally while trying to understand where the author is coming from more fully), but dismissing the author and her thoughts outright because you feel you know better seems counterproductive at best.