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There's a lot of sweeping generalisations there! I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. There's dozens

There's a lot of sweeping generalisations there! I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. There's dozens of causes to crime - lack of opportunity, not caring of consequences, greed, upbringing, education, peer pressure, depression or other issues (often held up as a cause of affluent shoplifting) and many others. The simple fact remains that poverty or a recession indicates a clear rise. If you can't put food on the table for the kids, and feel you have no other choices left, you may reach the point that you steal. Crime often happens without need too. From stealing a little stationery from your well paid job, fiddling expenses (£100k a year MPs have been caught doing this, whilst legislating to send the scum to prison for years for some triviality). They can be because you're pissed at your job. So it goes on for more premeditated and higher value crimes. Giving folks a decent baseline might end crimes of poverty and necessity, but would have little effect on the rest of the causes.

xapata 10y ago
Your choice to ignore speeding as a crime is interesting. Stealing has much lower risk of killing someone, so in a sense, speeding is much closer to murder.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Only in the context of the OP talking about crimes of necessity. Speeding may perhaps be a necessity if you're trying to get someone to hospital, but in normal circumstances near a school is plain reckless. Speeding and other motoring offences aren't a necessity in the same way stealing money for food might be. They're not influenced by poverty at all. Some of the other motivations are common though. Hence choosing to ignore in that context.
- dwaltrip 10y ago
  Please, tell me, how much more likely is a there to be a fatality if one is going 5mph above the speed limit? I'm dying to know
  - arjie 10y ago
    The correlation between fatality rate and speed of impact is so well established that you should just be doing your own research here and looking it up. If you can't be bothered, the answer is that it depends on which 5 mph it is. Speeding by 5 mph in the 30 mph school zone mentioned above is substantially increasing risk of fatality of pedestrian hit. Likewise, the correlation between speed and time to stop is also rather well established.
    - dwaltrip 10y ago
      I wasn't asking for the increased risk of fatality assuming there was a crash. We are talking about the overall impact of the decision to speed, so we can't assume a specific scenario. Of course which 5 mph it is also matters, as you've stated. It also matters if it is 2 mph or 10 mph. I still think GP's assertion is ridiculous. Minor speeding, which is what most people do, is not "close to murder" by any reasonable analysis.
      - arjie 10y ago
        There have been quite a few improvements in car technology since it was released, but the first Google result I could find says that 1 mph increase in average speed results in a 5% increase in injury accidents: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_traffic_and_transport_planning/report_the_effects_of_drivers_speed_on_the_frequency_of_road_accidents.htm http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_r...
      - xapata 10y ago
        Perhaps not, but that's not what I said, either. I said that on the dimension of likelihood of causing death, speeding is closer to murder than theft is. Let me offer a thought experiment: You're a parent in a nice quiet neighborhood. Scenario One: You come home from work and your front door has been kicked in. Someone stole your laptop. Scenario Two: The neighborhood kids are playing ball in your yard. A car drives down your street at 90 mph. Which scenario makes you more angry? When someone steals my stuff, I get sad. When someone ignores a stop sign while I'm in the crosswalk, I get angry.
sdoering 10y ago
> Giving folks a decent baseline might end crimes of poverty and necessity, but would have little effect on the rest of the causes. Exactly what I was implying. > I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. I didn't put it in the same category. I used both as examples. For me speeding is way worse then petty theft (out of necessity). And that said by someone who had a break in while sleeping and had to deal with the fear and anxiety for long after that. Being radically honest now: For me speeding more then 10km/h above speed limit should be punishable with the equivalent of one years worth of income before taxes. At least. Make it hurt financially and make it hurt very much. And if an accident happens, with the person speeding should be automatically jailed. For at least 3 years to life (depending on the amount of speeding and the severity of the accident). For me, if they speed and endanger their fellow citizens they loose every right to be treated as a normal human being. In my mind they are then entering the category of solipsistic arles and should be treated as such.

xapata 10y ago

Your choice to ignore speeding as a crime is interesting. Stealing has much lower risk of killing someone, so in a sense, speeding is much closer to murder.

anexprogrammer 10y ago
Only in the context of the OP talking about crimes of necessity. Speeding may perhaps be a necessity if you're trying to get someone to hospital, but in normal circumstances near a school is plain reckless. Speeding and other motoring offences aren't a necessity in the same way stealing money for food might be. They're not influenced by poverty at all. Some of the other motivations are common though. Hence choosing to ignore in that context.
dwaltrip 10y ago
Please, tell me, how much more likely is a there to be a fatality if one is going 5mph above the speed limit? I'm dying to know
- arjie 10y ago
  The correlation between fatality rate and speed of impact is so well established that you should just be doing your own research here and looking it up. If you can't be bothered, the answer is that it depends on which 5 mph it is. Speeding by 5 mph in the 30 mph school zone mentioned above is substantially increasing risk of fatality of pedestrian hit. Likewise, the correlation between speed and time to stop is also rather well established.
  - dwaltrip 10y ago
    I wasn't asking for the increased risk of fatality assuming there was a crash. We are talking about the overall impact of the decision to speed, so we can't assume a specific scenario. Of course which 5 mph it is also matters, as you've stated. It also matters if it is 2 mph or 10 mph. I still think GP's assertion is ridiculous. Minor speeding, which is what most people do, is not "close to murder" by any reasonable analysis.
    - arjie 10y ago
      There have been quite a few improvements in car technology since it was released, but the first Google result I could find says that 1 mph increase in average speed results in a 5% increase in injury accidents: http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_traffic_and_transport_planning/report_the_effects_of_drivers_speed_on_the_frequency_of_road_accidents.htm http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_r...
    - xapata 10y ago
      Perhaps not, but that's not what I said, either. I said that on the dimension of likelihood of causing death, speeding is closer to murder than theft is. Let me offer a thought experiment: You're a parent in a nice quiet neighborhood. Scenario One: You come home from work and your front door has been kicked in. Someone stole your laptop. Scenario Two: The neighborhood kids are playing ball in your yard. A car drives down your street at 90 mph. Which scenario makes you more angry? When someone steals my stuff, I get sad. When someone ignores a stop sign while I'm in the crosswalk, I get angry.

sdoering 10y ago

> Giving folks a decent baseline might end crimes of poverty and necessity, but would have little effect on the rest of the causes. Exactly what I was implying. > I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. I didn't put it in the same category. I used both as examples. For me speeding is way worse then petty theft (out of necessity). And that said by someone who had a break in while sleeping and had to deal with the fear and anxiety for long after that. Being radically honest now: For me speeding more then 10km/h above speed limit should be punishable with the equivalent of one years worth of income before taxes. At least. Make it hurt financially and make it hurt very much. And if an accident happens, with the person speeding should be automatically jailed. For at least 3 years to life (depending on the amount of speeding and the severity of the accident). For me, if they speed and endanger their fellow citizens they loose every right to be treated as a normal human being. In my mind they are then entering the category of solipsistic arles and should be treated as such.