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> Why bother to steal when you are already comfortable? This is more important than the author makes it to be. If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live

> Why bother to steal when you are already comfortable? This is more important than the author makes it to be. If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't, and slowly everybody let their guard down more and more. Edit: I should have said theft instead of crime. Need affect theft, theft affect trust.

geon 10y ago
> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Provably false. Plenty of crimes are committed by well off persons. There is probably a causality, though.
- dev1n 10y ago
  well off persons commit very different crimes from poor people. I don't think the author is talking about white collar crimes here.
  - sdoering 10y ago
    Oh believe me, how often it happens, that well off people just "accidentally" drop some little stuff in their purse. Really lots of minor crimes, like shoplifting is done by people who do not have the necessity to do so. Not to talk about (nearly) criminal behavior while driving. Might be confirmation bias, but when I do my daily commute, most of the time it is the big car that does 100 in a 60 zone. Or the mothers, driving their kids to school, doing 60 to 70 in our 30 residential zone. Directly next to a school with kids lining the pathways. For me, these are just anecdotal examples, but I do not believe, that crime happens out of necessity (sure a lot of crime does, or does because it seems to be the easier way). But just making everybody well off will not end criminal behavior. People are aholes. Imho at least 2 standard deviations (and oftentimes I count myself into this range - but working on myself).
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
      There's a lot of sweeping generalisations there! I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. There's dozens of causes to crime - lack of opportunity, not caring of consequences, greed, upbringing, education, peer pressure, depression or other issues (often held up as a cause of affluent shoplifting) and many others. The simple fact remains that poverty or a recession indicates a clear rise. If you can't put food on the table for the kids, and feel you have no other choices left, you may reach the point that you steal. Crime often happens without need too. From stealing a little stationery from your well paid job, fiddling expenses (£100k a year MPs have been caught doing this, whilst legislating to send the scum to prison for years for some triviality). They can be because you're pissed at your job. So it goes on for more premeditated and higher value crimes. Giving folks a decent baseline might end crimes of poverty and necessity, but would have little effect on the rest of the causes.
      - xapata 10y ago
        Your choice to ignore speeding as a crime is interesting. Stealing has much lower risk of killing someone, so in a sense, speeding is much closer to murder.
        anexprogrammer 10y ago
        Only in the context of the OP talking about crimes of necessity. Speeding may perhaps be a necessity if you're trying to get someone to hospital, but in normal circumstances near a school is plain reckless. Speeding and other motoring offences aren't a necessity in the same way stealing money for food might be. They're not influenced by poverty at all. Some of the other motivations are common though. Hence choosing to ignore in that context.
        dwaltrip 10y ago
        Please, tell me, how much more likely is a there to be a fatality if one is going 5mph above the speed limit? I'm dying to know
  - esmi 10y ago
    I don't think geon was thinking of white collars crimes either. Personally, I was thinking of domestic violence.
    - dorfsmay 10y ago
      Does domestic violence affect trust in society? Is there less domestic violence in the U.S.A. then in Somalia?
    - geon 10y ago
      Fwiw, I was thinking of shoplifting. Lots of people do it recreationally.
golergka 10y ago
> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Can you substantiate this?
goseeastarwar 10y ago
This is also the plot of the 1983 comedy classic "Trading Places" starring Dan Aykroyd, Eddie Murphy, and Jamie Lee Curtis.
adwn 10y ago
> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Are you implying that the majority of the crime committed in the US is due to the perpetrator starving otherwise? Note that this excludes criminal acts intended to procure money for drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes. If that is what you mean, then that sounds extremely implausible. What makes you think so? What about sexual violence, domestic violence, other crimes where no goods or money change owners, criminal behavior in traffic, tax evasion?
pandaman 10y ago
If what you said had been true then such categories of theft as embezzlement did not exist. The view of people following strict moral code and breaking it only to save one's life is very naive, IMHO.

geon 10y ago

> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Provably false. Plenty of crimes are committed by well off persons. There is probably a causality, though.

dev1n 10y ago
well off persons commit very different crimes from poor people. I don't think the author is talking about white collar crimes here.
- sdoering 10y ago
  Oh believe me, how often it happens, that well off people just "accidentally" drop some little stuff in their purse. Really lots of minor crimes, like shoplifting is done by people who do not have the necessity to do so. Not to talk about (nearly) criminal behavior while driving. Might be confirmation bias, but when I do my daily commute, most of the time it is the big car that does 100 in a 60 zone. Or the mothers, driving their kids to school, doing 60 to 70 in our 30 residential zone. Directly next to a school with kids lining the pathways. For me, these are just anecdotal examples, but I do not believe, that crime happens out of necessity (sure a lot of crime does, or does because it seems to be the easier way). But just making everybody well off will not end criminal behavior. People are aholes. Imho at least 2 standard deviations (and oftentimes I count myself into this range - but working on myself).
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    There's a lot of sweeping generalisations there! I can't put speeding in the same category as crimes of poverty, so I won't mention it further. There's dozens of causes to crime - lack of opportunity, not caring of consequences, greed, upbringing, education, peer pressure, depression or other issues (often held up as a cause of affluent shoplifting) and many others. The simple fact remains that poverty or a recession indicates a clear rise. If you can't put food on the table for the kids, and feel you have no other choices left, you may reach the point that you steal. Crime often happens without need too. From stealing a little stationery from your well paid job, fiddling expenses (£100k a year MPs have been caught doing this, whilst legislating to send the scum to prison for years for some triviality). They can be because you're pissed at your job. So it goes on for more premeditated and higher value crimes. Giving folks a decent baseline might end crimes of poverty and necessity, but would have little effect on the rest of the causes.
    - xapata 10y ago
      Your choice to ignore speeding as a crime is interesting. Stealing has much lower risk of killing someone, so in a sense, speeding is much closer to murder.
      - anexprogrammer 10y ago
        Only in the context of the OP talking about crimes of necessity. Speeding may perhaps be a necessity if you're trying to get someone to hospital, but in normal circumstances near a school is plain reckless. Speeding and other motoring offences aren't a necessity in the same way stealing money for food might be. They're not influenced by poverty at all. Some of the other motivations are common though. Hence choosing to ignore in that context.
      - dwaltrip 10y ago
        Please, tell me, how much more likely is a there to be a fatality if one is going 5mph above the speed limit? I'm dying to know
- esmi 10y ago
  I don't think geon was thinking of white collars crimes either. Personally, I was thinking of domestic violence.
  - dorfsmay 10y ago
    Does domestic violence affect trust in society? Is there less domestic violence in the U.S.A. then in Somalia?
  - geon 10y ago
    Fwiw, I was thinking of shoplifting. Lots of people do it recreationally.

golergka 10y ago

> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Can you substantiate this?

goseeastarwar 10y ago

This is also the plot of the 1983 comedy classic "Trading Places" starring Dan Aykroyd, Eddie Murphy, and Jamie Lee Curtis.

adwn 10y ago

> If nobody needs to turn to crime to eat and live, then they don't Are you implying that the majority of the crime committed in the US is due to the perpetrator starving otherwise? Note that this excludes criminal acts intended to procure money for drugs, alcohol, or cigarettes. If that is what you mean, then that sounds extremely implausible. What makes you think so? What about sexual violence, domestic violence, other crimes where no goods or money change owners, criminal behavior in traffic, tax evasion?

pandaman 10y ago

If what you said had been true then such categories of theft as embezzlement did not exist. The view of people following strict moral code and breaking it only to save one's life is very naive, IMHO.