3 ms·

Reminds me of Berlin parties in S-bahn stations or beneath bridges, usually around Warschauer. Those cannot possibly be legal, but nobody bothers to stop them.

by tormeh 10y ago

sneak 10y ago
The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.
- pipio21 10y ago
  I would not consider some action that has no victims to be a crime, but just going against the law. The law could be wrong itself. For example, if you see a woman driving in Saudi Arabia, it goes against the law, but is not a crime. Another example, in the US having a kid drinking wine goes against the law. As a kid in Spain and France I drunk a glass of wine in all meals, like the rest of my family and it is very healthy. You get used to the rules in your country, but this does not mean that the laws are good. For instance a foreigner going into the US will probably consider barbaric the tradition of circumcising kids when they are born( I thought it myself), but locals rationalize and defend it(like locals in Saudi Arabia do with women driving). A kid can drive a car but not drink a glass of wine? Utter non sense, but real.
  - adhearn 10y ago
    Although it is usually wrong to argue by definition, in this case "goes against the law" means it is a crime by definition. Just because you don't like the law doesn't it make it less of a law. I think a lot of your examples are a little bit misguided, a case of not understanding the reasoning behind laws. Sometimes, things are illegible because we lack the correct perspective, not because they're fundamentally wrong. For example, at least in some parts of the United States (Texas is the one I'm familiar with, but others might exist), it is legal for minors to consume alcohol, even in restaurants, with parental supervision (https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?state=TX https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?...). The reason children can drive cars relatively young in the United States has several factors, but one of the big ones is the distance between places. I had a roommate who started driving to school when he was 14 or 15 because it was the only way for him to efficiently get to his school, which was still a 25 minute drive. There was some sort of special licensing in Iowa for children that young to drive to and from school unsupervised, because it wasn't efficient to try to bus everyone in. Now, you might still think this is a bad law, but it's not like they just made up a driving age for fun. The social, economic, and political reality of certain areas of the United States makes driving far more valuable than in many other places in the world, simply because practical transportation alternatives do not exist.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    Right. Or like in France wearing a burqa will get you in trouble, or in Australia if you watch porn where the woman's vagina isn't state approved you'll get in trouble. There are all sorts of laws all over that just insane.
- roel_v 10y ago
  This sort of raves violates all sorts of environmental and health and safety codes. It only takes one fire with a couple dead to make them all go away. Look, I used to like raves when I was younger, but it's silly to claim that anybody should be allowed to organize anything anywhere without regard for the neighbors, safety of visitors or work load of emergency services.
  - Hydraulix989 10y ago
    I don't see how having a permit solves any of that though. Moreover, I wonder how many right-side events also violate the aforementioned overly-onerous codes.
  - mercer 10y ago
    > it's silly to claim that anybody should be allowed to organize anything anywhere without regard for the neighbors, safety of visitors or work load of emergency services. I don't think anyone is arguing in favor of that. My experience in Berlin has been that a lot more is allowed than in other cities I've experienced, but within reasonable boundaries. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Here in Holland I feel like the state is an overprotective parent. We shouldn't obsess over safety at the expense of living.

Reminds me of Berlin parties in S-bahn stations or beneath bridges, usually around Warschauer. Those cannot possibly be legal, but nobody bothers to stop them.

by tormeh 10y ago

Reminds me of Berlin parties in S-bahn stations or beneath bridges, usually around Warschauer. Those cannot possibly be legal, but nobody bothers to stop them.

sneak 10y ago

The police here are remarkably tolerant of most victimless crimes, thankfully.

pipio21 10y ago
I would not consider some action that has no victims to be a crime, but just going against the law. The law could be wrong itself. For example, if you see a woman driving in Saudi Arabia, it goes against the law, but is not a crime. Another example, in the US having a kid drinking wine goes against the law. As a kid in Spain and France I drunk a glass of wine in all meals, like the rest of my family and it is very healthy. You get used to the rules in your country, but this does not mean that the laws are good. For instance a foreigner going into the US will probably consider barbaric the tradition of circumcising kids when they are born( I thought it myself), but locals rationalize and defend it(like locals in Saudi Arabia do with women driving). A kid can drive a car but not drink a glass of wine? Utter non sense, but real.
- adhearn 10y ago
  Although it is usually wrong to argue by definition, in this case "goes against the law" means it is a crime by definition. Just because you don't like the law doesn't it make it less of a law. I think a lot of your examples are a little bit misguided, a case of not understanding the reasoning behind laws. Sometimes, things are illegible because we lack the correct perspective, not because they're fundamentally wrong. For example, at least in some parts of the United States (Texas is the one I'm familiar with, but others might exist), it is legal for minors to consume alcohol, even in restaurants, with parental supervision (https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?state=TX https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/APIS_State_Profile.html?...). The reason children can drive cars relatively young in the United States has several factors, but one of the big ones is the distance between places. I had a roommate who started driving to school when he was 14 or 15 because it was the only way for him to efficiently get to his school, which was still a 25 minute drive. There was some sort of special licensing in Iowa for children that young to drive to and from school unsupervised, because it wasn't efficient to try to bus everyone in. Now, you might still think this is a bad law, but it's not like they just made up a driving age for fun. The social, economic, and political reality of certain areas of the United States makes driving far more valuable than in many other places in the world, simply because practical transportation alternatives do not exist.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  Right. Or like in France wearing a burqa will get you in trouble, or in Australia if you watch porn where the woman's vagina isn't state approved you'll get in trouble. There are all sorts of laws all over that just insane.
roel_v 10y ago
This sort of raves violates all sorts of environmental and health and safety codes. It only takes one fire with a couple dead to make them all go away. Look, I used to like raves when I was younger, but it's silly to claim that anybody should be allowed to organize anything anywhere without regard for the neighbors, safety of visitors or work load of emergency services.
- Hydraulix989 10y ago
  I don't see how having a permit solves any of that though. Moreover, I wonder how many right-side events also violate the aforementioned overly-onerous codes.
- mercer 10y ago
  > it's silly to claim that anybody should be allowed to organize anything anywhere without regard for the neighbors, safety of visitors or work load of emergency services. I don't think anyone is arguing in favor of that. My experience in Berlin has been that a lot more is allowed than in other cities I've experienced, but within reasonable boundaries. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Here in Holland I feel like the state is an overprotective parent. We shouldn't obsess over safety at the expense of living.