5 ms·

Those same people use Google and Facebook without any qualms. Microsoft should hire their marketing psych people.

by sverige 10y ago

protomyth 10y ago
I don't disagree, but it feels a bit different when its something you supposedly own. Frankly, some of the Facebook posts are a bit on the fringe side, but we're talking about PCs here so they're instruments of the Twilight Zone to begin with. I keep thinking some Linux / BSD group would get it together and go for this still big market, but they are worse at marketing than Microsoft. I had such high hopes for ARM-based PCs.
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  You mean Google Chromebook (Linux) or Apple Mac (BSD)?
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Well, I did have some hope of Chromebook's but they are phone-home only machines (We had a discussion in another thread on them and my trying to buy them institutionally and all the fail). Is there even an ARM Chromebook still sold? Apple doesn't seem too interested in taking over the PC market or even releasing new PCs.
- sverige 10y ago
  The game was lost when UEFI came out with certs required. Or maybe earlier, when Windows began phoning home.
- mwcampbell 10y ago
  > I had such high hopes for ARM-based PCs. If you haven't given up entirely on ARM Linux-based desktops and laptops, you might want to check out this project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
- rbanffy 10y ago
  You own the physical media. You are free to try to install it on your computer (and, if you have a PS/2 meyboard/mouse, that can even work) > some Linux / BSD group would get it together and go for this still big market I don't think they'd be interested in writing Windows drivers and the NDAs they'd need to sign would probably end their careers in open-source. What you can do is to install a thin supported OS that can host VMs and install Windows 7 on one. Oracle's VirtualBox even has some support for GPUs.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    Uhm... I must of really missed on that - I don't want them writing Windows drivers - I wanted someone to come up with an amazing alternative to Windows boxes for end users.
    - rbanffy 10y ago
      The ReactOS guys are trying.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
And if Windows stayed free, we would have our apples to apples comparison.
LeanderK 10y ago
you can limit your usage of google/fb but you can't escape windows (without switching the os).
mSparks 10y ago
This is something of a strawman tbh. The computing equivalent of implying anyone who has ever taken their cloths off and had sex must be addicted to pornography. Just because people use some software or websites that publicly display themselves, does not mean they would ever be willing to accept everything they do on their computer being visible to random strangers. Kids on the other hand... Stripping away privacy has them so unihibited the average not-even-teenagers-yet cyberkids are sexting friends and total strangers alike instead of drinking an old fashioned beer. And I used to worry they would never learn to write by hand :(
- sverige 10y ago
  Well, there's that, but I had in mind the fact that Google and FB and Apple and others gather as much data or more on people than MS. Granted, it's not necessarily all the stuff MS might be getting through a compromised OS, but it is the kind of stuff the parent mentioned.
  - mSparks 10y ago
    But it's different data. People use google and facebook with zero expectation of "privacy" - in fact, not being "private" is the actual reason they use them. Its a very big step to be in a situation where [i]everything[/i] you do on a computer comes with zero expectation of privacy, despite the corporate attempts to machinate the two because cloud. I'm seeing a greater and greater move to "airgapped" (network but not internet connected) machines in the home for exactly this reason. (even if it is still very small scale, that's where these trends start). I'm currently looking for a solution that blocks all connections by default for the entire network, with a simple gui to allow failed hostnames/ip addresses and with the option to demilitarise one or two server style machines for torrents and cloud services that then serve only that content to the rest of the internal network. (like hostfile blocking only at the IP level and defaulting to whitelist). Something like a blend of IPTABLES and wireshark with a simple ui. I know they exist (I've seen something similar in large corporate offices), but not seen anything for SHO.
    - sverige 10y ago
Ar-Curunir 10y ago
There's a difference between your OS spying on you vs. a website that you can choose not to use (and can easily limit the spying capabilities of) spying on you. Most people can't easily switch OSes. You can easily install uBlock or some other ad and tracking blocking addon to prevent Google and Facebook from spying on you.

Those same people use Google and Facebook without any qualms. Microsoft should hire their marketing psych people.

by sverige 10y ago

Those same people use Google and Facebook without any qualms. Microsoft should hire their marketing psych people.

I don't disagree, but it feels a bit different when its something you supposedly own. Frankly, some of the Facebook posts are a bit on the fringe side, but we're talking about PCs here so they're instruments of the Twilight Zone to begin with. I keep thinking some Linux / BSD group would get it together and go for this still big market, but they are worse at marketing than Microsoft. I had such high hopes for ARM-based PCs.

Godel_unicode 10y ago
You mean Google Chromebook (Linux) or Apple Mac (BSD)?
- protomyth 10y ago
  Well, I did have some hope of Chromebook's but they are phone-home only machines (We had a discussion in another thread on them and my trying to buy them institutionally and all the fail). Is there even an ARM Chromebook still sold? Apple doesn't seem too interested in taking over the PC market or even releasing new PCs.
sverige 10y ago
The game was lost when UEFI came out with certs required. Or maybe earlier, when Windows began phoning home.
mwcampbell 10y ago
> I had such high hopes for ARM-based PCs. If you haven't given up entirely on ARM Linux-based desktops and laptops, you might want to check out this project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
rbanffy 10y ago
You own the physical media. You are free to try to install it on your computer (and, if you have a PS/2 meyboard/mouse, that can even work) > some Linux / BSD group would get it together and go for this still big market I don't think they'd be interested in writing Windows drivers and the NDAs they'd need to sign would probably end their careers in open-source. What you can do is to install a thin supported OS that can host VMs and install Windows 7 on one. Oracle's VirtualBox even has some support for GPUs.
- protomyth 10y ago
  Uhm... I must of really missed on that - I don't want them writing Windows drivers - I wanted someone to come up with an amazing alternative to Windows boxes for end users.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    The ReactOS guys are trying.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

And if Windows stayed free, we would have our apples to apples comparison.

LeanderK 10y ago

you can limit your usage of google/fb but you can't escape windows (without switching the os).

mSparks 10y ago

This is something of a strawman tbh. The computing equivalent of implying anyone who has ever taken their cloths off and had sex must be addicted to pornography. Just because people use some software or websites that publicly display themselves, does not mean they would ever be willing to accept everything they do on their computer being visible to random strangers. Kids on the other hand... Stripping away privacy has them so unihibited the average not-even-teenagers-yet cyberkids are sexting friends and total strangers alike instead of drinking an old fashioned beer. And I used to worry they would never learn to write by hand :(

sverige 10y ago
Well, there's that, but I had in mind the fact that Google and FB and Apple and others gather as much data or more on people than MS. Granted, it's not necessarily all the stuff MS might be getting through a compromised OS, but it is the kind of stuff the parent mentioned.
- mSparks 10y ago
  But it's different data. People use google and facebook with zero expectation of "privacy" - in fact, not being "private" is the actual reason they use them. Its a very big step to be in a situation where [i]everything[/i] you do on a computer comes with zero expectation of privacy, despite the corporate attempts to machinate the two because cloud. I'm seeing a greater and greater move to "airgapped" (network but not internet connected) machines in the home for exactly this reason. (even if it is still very small scale, that's where these trends start). I'm currently looking for a solution that blocks all connections by default for the entire network, with a simple gui to allow failed hostnames/ip addresses and with the option to demilitarise one or two server style machines for torrents and cloud services that then serve only that content to the rest of the internal network. (like hostfile blocking only at the IP level and defaulting to whitelist). Something like a blend of IPTABLES and wireshark with a simple ui. I know they exist (I've seen something similar in large corporate offices), but not seen anything for SHO.
  - sverige 10y ago

Ar-Curunir 10y ago

There's a difference between your OS spying on you vs. a website that you can choose not to use (and can easily limit the spying capabilities of) spying on you. Most people can't easily switch OSes. You can easily install uBlock or some other ad and tracking blocking addon to prevent Google and Facebook from spying on you.