3 ms·

You'll find a lot of summer attendance in CCs is a lot lower due to summer jobs students take (many low experience jobs are available in summer unlike other sea

You'll find a lot of summer attendance in CCs is a lot lower due to summer jobs students take (many low experience jobs are available in summer unlike other seasons). To the point, a lot of 9 month contracts are happening much like regular schools.

WalterBright 10y ago
I don't really understand your point. Is it because it won't work 100% of the time for 100% of the CCs it should never be considered? Because it seems clear to me that for situations where it can work, it should be considered. Of course summer attendance is less. So there are fewer classes. Why is that a problem if there are enough people wanting to learn programming in the summer to form a class? Heck, I learned accounting in summer school. The college had 10x the number of accounting students during the rest of the year, but in the summer they still had enough to fill one class and found a local instructor who wanted to supplement his income. Are you suggesting that should not have happened?
- protomyth 10y ago
  My point is its of limited utility to a lot of institutions because students need to earn money and summer is the time to do it. Plus, the accreditation rules have changed in recent years to make people without a 4 year degrees (and indeed in some areas without a Masters) to be problematic for teaching.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    So it should not be done at all? > to be problematic Another example of good intentions gone awry.
    - protomyth 10y ago
      > So it should not be done at all? Maybe other institutions could do it and get away with it. I cannot see the average CC with normal staffing, student, and rule patterns. > Another example of good intentions gone awry. ? We have to live with the rules the accreditation boards set. You lose your accreditation and its game over and the whole community suffers from not only the loss of a learning institution, but an employer and social work organization.
      - WalterBright 10y ago
        Of course, such a course in programming doesn't have to be accredited. But for those in favor of bureaucratic rules over getting things done, they'll have to settle for no programming instruction in CCs.
        protomyth 10y ago
        > Of course, such a course in programming doesn't have to be accredited. If the course is not accredited, it doesn't transfer and it doesn't count towards a degree. If it doesn't count for any degree we might as well do a workshop with certificates and hire a one shot instructor or contract for one from a company. That is something we already do and would not trust to a student. > But for those in favor of bureaucratic rules over getting things done, they'll have to settle for no programming instruction in CCs. I don't think you get the whole CC thing. Not following those rules, like murdering someone, would be an death sentence.

WalterBright 10y ago

I don't really understand your point. Is it because it won't work 100% of the time for 100% of the CCs it should never be considered? Because it seems clear to me that for situations where it can work, it should be considered. Of course summer attendance is less. So there are fewer classes. Why is that a problem if there are enough people wanting to learn programming in the summer to form a class? Heck, I learned accounting in summer school. The college had 10x the number of accounting students during the rest of the year, but in the summer they still had enough to fill one class and found a local instructor who wanted to supplement his income. Are you suggesting that should not have happened?

protomyth 10y ago
My point is its of limited utility to a lot of institutions because students need to earn money and summer is the time to do it. Plus, the accreditation rules have changed in recent years to make people without a 4 year degrees (and indeed in some areas without a Masters) to be problematic for teaching.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  So it should not be done at all? > to be problematic Another example of good intentions gone awry.
  - protomyth 10y ago
    > So it should not be done at all? Maybe other institutions could do it and get away with it. I cannot see the average CC with normal staffing, student, and rule patterns. > Another example of good intentions gone awry. ? We have to live with the rules the accreditation boards set. You lose your accreditation and its game over and the whole community suffers from not only the loss of a learning institution, but an employer and social work organization.
    - WalterBright 10y ago
      Of course, such a course in programming doesn't have to be accredited. But for those in favor of bureaucratic rules over getting things done, they'll have to settle for no programming instruction in CCs.
      - protomyth 10y ago
        > Of course, such a course in programming doesn't have to be accredited. If the course is not accredited, it doesn't transfer and it doesn't count towards a degree. If it doesn't count for any degree we might as well do a workshop with certificates and hire a one shot instructor or contract for one from a company. That is something we already do and would not trust to a student. > But for those in favor of bureaucratic rules over getting things done, they'll have to settle for no programming instruction in CCs. I don't think you get the whole CC thing. Not following those rules, like murdering someone, would be an death sentence.