4 ms·

I think you're kind of missing the point. Because caffeine binds to adenosine receptors, it prevents you from entering the deepest phase of sleep, so even thoug

by keefe 17y ago

I think you're kind of missing the point. Because caffeine binds to adenosine receptors, it prevents you from entering the deepest phase of sleep, so even though you sleep, you don't get your full rest. Caffeine half life is 6 hours, so imho it should be done ONLY in the morning so that by bed time, it's gone and you sleep properly. I have verified this in my own experience. It basically makes caffeine much, much less useful.

gte910h 17y ago
The halflife is between 4-5 hours for a healthy adult not on oral contraceptives and not pregnant. You're significantly overstating (by 33-50%) the halflife and very vastly throwing off the amount that is still in your system after doing the decay function with your 6 hour figure. http://www.webmd.com/balance/caffeine-myths-and-facts http://www.webmd.com/balance/caffeine-myths-and-facts And (Deadtree): Barone, J.J. and Roberts, H.R. Food and Chemical Toxicology, 34, 119-129, 1996. It is commonly suggested to avoid caffeine 8 hours before bed to be able to sleep well. -- If it lasts that long for you (and you're not on birth control or pregnant), you may wish to get liver function tests done with your doctor to make sure you're okay in that department. Or you may just need to do other steps to put you into deeper sleep. Cold rooms with warm blankets, nothing but sex and sleep in bed (no reading, no talking, no snoozing), no spicy or sweet foods within a few hours before bed and block out all/most light to help.
- keefe 17y ago
  lol dude hilarious? No, I don't need to get liver function tests or to do other things. 4-5 hours vs 6 is meaninglessly different for this discussion. I just said it's only useful in the morning and you come back with you have to stop 8 hours before bed? If I don't stop 6 hours before bed it affects my performance the next day. If you take a stimulant and you don't notice the downswing after it starts to wear off, you don't observe yourself very well. I'm more productive with minimal caffeine intake than constant. literal lol again...
  - gte910h 17y ago
    There is a huge difference between 8 hours before bed and "the morning", which was your contention as the only time caffeine should be used. 8 Hours before bed is roughly 530 pm for me. And it coincidentally, is very near the end of the workday for me. You either A> are being inconsistent, B> Don't understand half-life or C> are overstating your case. Look, you said before you think it's only useful in the morning, then you say: >If I don't stop 6 hours before bed it affects my performance the next day. So either you go to bed at 6pm, or you aren't saying the same thing about when you find caffeine useful vs when it effects your sleep as you originally claimed it was only useful in morning. Additionally, the crash from stimulants is from adrenaline rush and a dip in serotonin. If you're taking a modest amount of caffeine, you shouldn't be suffering a downswing. Only heavy users (400+ mg a day, usually addicts) are likely to actually have a serotonin dip, and only large doses cause a large enough adrenaline surge for you to feel a crash similar to what you'd feel on a stronger stimulant like amphetamines. The best use case for caffeine is: No daily usage, less than 400mg per day when used, used as late in the day as required to stay awake (and remember it lasts for about 4-8 hours longer than you are drinking it), but not in the morning. Get your heart racing in the morning by a set of jumping jacks or something else, and watch for signs of addiction and tolerance. And now, I'm invoking XKCD and ignoring the rest of this thread so I can get some code released: http://xkcd.com/386/ http://xkcd.com/386/
    - keefe 17y ago
      lol.... something amusing deep in my threads is always nice, especially given that we seem to nearly 100% agree on all the substantive points of this discussion. Yes, I was using the word "morning" loosely. I throw myself on the mercy of the grammar police. To me, the "morning" is the first half of the day, the 8 hours of work+chores+gym before I eat lunch. There's two issues with caffeine for me : performance dip and sleep interference. If I drink a cup of coffee, I feel the boost but when it wears off, I feel a performance dip. Perhaps I am more sensitive to this than average, I don't care what the exact reason is. I can't comment on how this compares to speed or other drugs, I'm relatively straight edge. It's a relatively mild down, but enough to impact my performance. So, my inclination is to re-up caffeine to stave off the downswing, which cannot continue past lunch due to the impact on my sleep. So, that is why I comment on how it's only useful in the "morning". Different people have wildly different metabolisms, body compositions and reactions to drugs - I tend to be very sensitive to drugs... I got pulled over for suspected DUI once and blew a 0.03 :]

by keefe 17y ago

gte910h 17y ago

The halflife is between 4-5 hours for a healthy adult not on oral contraceptives and not pregnant. You're significantly overstating (by 33-50%) the halflife and very vastly throwing off the amount that is still in your system after doing the decay function with your 6 hour figure. http://www.webmd.com/balance/caffeine-myths-and-facts http://www.webmd.com/balance/caffeine-myths-and-facts And (Deadtree): Barone, J.J. and Roberts, H.R. Food and Chemical Toxicology, 34, 119-129, 1996. It is commonly suggested to avoid caffeine 8 hours before bed to be able to sleep well. -- If it lasts that long for you (and you're not on birth control or pregnant), you may wish to get liver function tests done with your doctor to make sure you're okay in that department. Or you may just need to do other steps to put you into deeper sleep. Cold rooms with warm blankets, nothing but sex and sleep in bed (no reading, no talking, no snoozing), no spicy or sweet foods within a few hours before bed and block out all/most light to help.

keefe 17y ago
lol dude hilarious? No, I don't need to get liver function tests or to do other things. 4-5 hours vs 6 is meaninglessly different for this discussion. I just said it's only useful in the morning and you come back with you have to stop 8 hours before bed? If I don't stop 6 hours before bed it affects my performance the next day. If you take a stimulant and you don't notice the downswing after it starts to wear off, you don't observe yourself very well. I'm more productive with minimal caffeine intake than constant. literal lol again...
- gte910h 17y ago
  There is a huge difference between 8 hours before bed and "the morning", which was your contention as the only time caffeine should be used. 8 Hours before bed is roughly 530 pm for me. And it coincidentally, is very near the end of the workday for me. You either A> are being inconsistent, B> Don't understand half-life or C> are overstating your case. Look, you said before you think it's only useful in the morning, then you say: >If I don't stop 6 hours before bed it affects my performance the next day. So either you go to bed at 6pm, or you aren't saying the same thing about when you find caffeine useful vs when it effects your sleep as you originally claimed it was only useful in morning. Additionally, the crash from stimulants is from adrenaline rush and a dip in serotonin. If you're taking a modest amount of caffeine, you shouldn't be suffering a downswing. Only heavy users (400+ mg a day, usually addicts) are likely to actually have a serotonin dip, and only large doses cause a large enough adrenaline surge for you to feel a crash similar to what you'd feel on a stronger stimulant like amphetamines. The best use case for caffeine is: No daily usage, less than 400mg per day when used, used as late in the day as required to stay awake (and remember it lasts for about 4-8 hours longer than you are drinking it), but not in the morning. Get your heart racing in the morning by a set of jumping jacks or something else, and watch for signs of addiction and tolerance. And now, I'm invoking XKCD and ignoring the rest of this thread so I can get some code released: http://xkcd.com/386/ http://xkcd.com/386/
  - keefe 17y ago
    lol.... something amusing deep in my threads is always nice, especially given that we seem to nearly 100% agree on all the substantive points of this discussion. Yes, I was using the word "morning" loosely. I throw myself on the mercy of the grammar police. To me, the "morning" is the first half of the day, the 8 hours of work+chores+gym before I eat lunch. There's two issues with caffeine for me : performance dip and sleep interference. If I drink a cup of coffee, I feel the boost but when it wears off, I feel a performance dip. Perhaps I am more sensitive to this than average, I don't care what the exact reason is. I can't comment on how this compares to speed or other drugs, I'm relatively straight edge. It's a relatively mild down, but enough to impact my performance. So, my inclination is to re-up caffeine to stave off the downswing, which cannot continue past lunch due to the impact on my sleep. So, that is why I comment on how it's only useful in the "morning". Different people have wildly different metabolisms, body compositions and reactions to drugs - I tend to be very sensitive to drugs... I got pulled over for suspected DUI once and blew a 0.03 :]