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you have to make your peace with the fact that fighting the good fight can sometimes be very unpleasant. I'd like to suggest that "unpleasant" doesn't cut it.

you have to make your peace with the fact that fighting the good fight can sometimes be very unpleasant. I'd like to suggest that "unpleasant" doesn't cut it. Rape threats, people posting your address online and encouraging others to visit you and do you harm, threats to your family, damaging your job prospects both directly and indirectly, causing you to live in a state of constant tension and fear (which is truly corrosive). These are real things that happen and they go beyond "unpleasant".

nickpsecurity 10y ago
Things that sometimes happen to people, male or female, that aggravate people on the Internet. Interestingly, most falls under the category of talking trash. Ignoring that is the solution. The next worst thing that happens is them leaking nude photos or personal information. One can immunize against a lot of that by simply not putting it out there. The last thing they might do is call people to disrupt your life. One essentially has to make some calls themselves to explain the situation. That part is still quite disruptive but rarely happens. All in all, your counterpoint is a combination of uncommon stuff that's easy to ignore and rare stuff that shouldn't dictate the rule. The most likely outcome is a heated discussion between two parties on the forum that ends on the forum or spills onto some later comments. Strange you left that one off.
- EliRivers 10y ago
  They're not common results, but they're still real, and every woman who dares to get uppity online has them in the back of her mind. The fact that they're not common isn't relevant; the chilling effect is very common. I note that you turned the subject around and with a passive-aggressive overtone made it about me. No comment.
lisper 10y ago
> I'd like to suggest that "unpleasant" doesn't cut it. Rape threats... The reason Mz gave for choosing not to give examples of the "subtler pattern of behaviors" which she is lamenting was that this would lead to "all kinds of drama". To my mind, rape threats aren't "drama", they're crimes. But I don't really want to quibble over terminology. If you like, you can consider "unpleasant" to be a deliberately ironic understatement. Fighting civil rights battles can exact a heavy price. Sometimes people actually get killed. I get it. But let's not lose sight of the actual point here: at least part of the reason for the situation that Mz laments -- that people do not see the "subtler pattern of behaviors" that characterize sexism -- is that Mz refuses to point them out because she doesn't want to deal with the "drama". Again, I sympathize. It should not be the case that people have to suffer to advocate for just causes. It sucks. But alas, that is the world we live in. And Mz's unwillingness to take this fact on board tells me something about the content of her character, and also suggests an alternative explanation for her financial woes that I humbly submit she ought to at least consider.
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nickpsecurity 10y ago

Things that sometimes happen to people, male or female, that aggravate people on the Internet. Interestingly, most falls under the category of talking trash. Ignoring that is the solution. The next worst thing that happens is them leaking nude photos or personal information. One can immunize against a lot of that by simply not putting it out there. The last thing they might do is call people to disrupt your life. One essentially has to make some calls themselves to explain the situation. That part is still quite disruptive but rarely happens. All in all, your counterpoint is a combination of uncommon stuff that's easy to ignore and rare stuff that shouldn't dictate the rule. The most likely outcome is a heated discussion between two parties on the forum that ends on the forum or spills onto some later comments. Strange you left that one off.

EliRivers 10y ago
They're not common results, but they're still real, and every woman who dares to get uppity online has them in the back of her mind. The fact that they're not common isn't relevant; the chilling effect is very common. I note that you turned the subject around and with a passive-aggressive overtone made it about me. No comment.

lisper 10y ago

> I'd like to suggest that "unpleasant" doesn't cut it. Rape threats... The reason Mz gave for choosing not to give examples of the "subtler pattern of behaviors" which she is lamenting was that this would lead to "all kinds of drama". To my mind, rape threats aren't "drama", they're crimes. But I don't really want to quibble over terminology. If you like, you can consider "unpleasant" to be a deliberately ironic understatement. Fighting civil rights battles can exact a heavy price. Sometimes people actually get killed. I get it. But let's not lose sight of the actual point here: at least part of the reason for the situation that Mz laments -- that people do not see the "subtler pattern of behaviors" that characterize sexism -- is that Mz refuses to point them out because she doesn't want to deal with the "drama". Again, I sympathize. It should not be the case that people have to suffer to advocate for just causes. It sucks. But alas, that is the world we live in. And Mz's unwillingness to take this fact on board tells me something about the content of her character, and also suggests an alternative explanation for her financial woes that I humbly submit she ought to at least consider.

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