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I'm honestly a little surprised Uber and Lyft can't manage a duopoly, considering how many miles ahead of the nearest competitors they are and how many mutual e

by bcoates 10y ago

I'm honestly a little surprised Uber and Lyft can't manage a duopoly, considering how many miles ahead of the nearest competitors they are and how many mutual enemies they have.

Animats 10y ago
Competition is so last-cen. You need a monopoly, so you can screw over the customers. Read Peter Thiel, "Competition is for losers".[1] "If you corner the market for something, you can jack up the price; others will have no choice but to buy from you." [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for-losers-1410535536 http://www.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for-l...
- smnscu 10y ago
  Your quote is taken a bit out of context, but still – I already didn't like Peter Thiel, this further reinforces my impression of him being a scummy, shady character.
  - Animats 10y ago
    Name one "unicorn" with a competitor that's at least half its size. In automotive, GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler have been plugging away for decades, and all have US market shares within a 2:1 range. We're not seeing that in new businesses.
    - dharmon 10y ago
      I thought your grandparent post was being facetious, but are you being serious with this one? Here's off the top of my head: Airbnb, Xiaomi, Flipkart, Pinterest, Snapchat (if you count instagram as a competitor), Zenefits, Didi until last week, Dropbox, Theranos, Snapdeal, Slack. Now that I think about it, it's probably much harder to come up with unicorns that do have a monopoly.
      - Animats 10y ago
        AirBnb vs HomeAway is bigger than 2:1. [1] Xiaomi is a cell phone manufacturer, in an established industry. In the social space, Facebook towers over Pinterest, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. Zenefits is indeed in a competitive space. It's in B2B, where crushing the competition is harder because of lock-in. Theranos may have a value of zero. Shopping cart companies (Flipkart, Snapdeal, Alibaba) tend to be nation-oriented, so you have to look at them country by country. Slack and Atlassan do seem to be in the 2:1 range. Again, B2B with lock-in. [1] http://fortune.com/2014/03/12/growing-quietly-in-airbnbs-shadow/ http://fortune.com/2014/03/12/growing-quietly-in-airbnbs-sha...
        dharmon 10y ago
        I wasn't thinking HomeAway, I was thinking every hotel chain out there. You said within 2:1, so Pinterest and Snapchat definitely qualify if you are counting their competitor as Facebook. Unless you meant 1:2, which doesn't make sense for your argument. Sounds like you agree then that Thiel's "You must be a monopoly" argument is bunk? Haha, I'm still confused by your comments.
dredmorbius 10y ago
That is pretty interesting, though it's also possible Lyft's got itself into a tight spot with finances (debt service or other obligations). If the ride-share service industry can't support two major players, questions of why emerge. Is it not sufficiently large, and current expectations are horribly overblown? Or is it subject to natural (or unnatural) monopoly effects to some massive degree?

by bcoates 10y ago

I'm honestly a little surprised Uber and Lyft can't manage a duopoly, considering how many miles ahead of the nearest competitors they are and how many mutual enemies they have.

Animats 10y ago

Competition is so last-cen. You need a monopoly, so you can screw over the customers. Read Peter Thiel, "Competition is for losers".[1] "If you corner the market for something, you can jack up the price; others will have no choice but to buy from you." [1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for-losers-1410535536 http://www.wsj.com/articles/peter-thiel-competition-is-for-l...

smnscu 10y ago
Your quote is taken a bit out of context, but still – I already didn't like Peter Thiel, this further reinforces my impression of him being a scummy, shady character.
- Animats 10y ago
  Name one "unicorn" with a competitor that's at least half its size. In automotive, GM, Ford, Toyota, and Chrysler have been plugging away for decades, and all have US market shares within a 2:1 range. We're not seeing that in new businesses.
  - dharmon 10y ago
    I thought your grandparent post was being facetious, but are you being serious with this one? Here's off the top of my head: Airbnb, Xiaomi, Flipkart, Pinterest, Snapchat (if you count instagram as a competitor), Zenefits, Didi until last week, Dropbox, Theranos, Snapdeal, Slack. Now that I think about it, it's probably much harder to come up with unicorns that do have a monopoly.
    - Animats 10y ago
      AirBnb vs HomeAway is bigger than 2:1. [1] Xiaomi is a cell phone manufacturer, in an established industry. In the social space, Facebook towers over Pinterest, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. Zenefits is indeed in a competitive space. It's in B2B, where crushing the competition is harder because of lock-in. Theranos may have a value of zero. Shopping cart companies (Flipkart, Snapdeal, Alibaba) tend to be nation-oriented, so you have to look at them country by country. Slack and Atlassan do seem to be in the 2:1 range. Again, B2B with lock-in. [1] http://fortune.com/2014/03/12/growing-quietly-in-airbnbs-shadow/ http://fortune.com/2014/03/12/growing-quietly-in-airbnbs-sha...
      - dharmon 10y ago
        I wasn't thinking HomeAway, I was thinking every hotel chain out there. You said within 2:1, so Pinterest and Snapchat definitely qualify if you are counting their competitor as Facebook. Unless you meant 1:2, which doesn't make sense for your argument. Sounds like you agree then that Thiel's "You must be a monopoly" argument is bunk? Haha, I'm still confused by your comments.

dredmorbius 10y ago

That is pretty interesting, though it's also possible Lyft's got itself into a tight spot with finances (debt service or other obligations). If the ride-share service industry can't support two major players, questions of why emerge. Is it not sufficiently large, and current expectations are horribly overblown? Or is it subject to natural (or unnatural) monopoly effects to some massive degree?