4 ms·

Nonsense. Most cases of people going to the doctor are not immediately lethal. Broken bones, large skin lesions, rashes and the flu, back pain and tooth aches.

by Kenji 10y ago

Nonsense. Most cases of people going to the doctor are not immediately lethal. Broken bones, large skin lesions, rashes and the flu, back pain and tooth aches. With all of these things, it is really nice to go to the doctor, but you don't necessarily have to: You "just" face large amounts of pain and possibly long-term damage. Rational decision making takes place in a free market: You weigh your pain and the damage against the money spent at the doctor. By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free", that is precisely the irrational uncapitalistic decision making we do not need. Another aspect is dumping millions into old people with end-stage cancer who die anyway, just prolonging the massive suffering by a couple of months or years (I personally know of such a case and it's heartbreaking how the greed of the doctors and the socialist health care system work together).

baconner 10y ago
I think there's significant evidence that socialized healthcare does not increase medical costs vs a system like the us has. Quite the opposite. In the us our costs grow dramatically compared to the rest of the world yet our outcomes are worse than many socialized systems. Socialized healthcare can absolutely include limits on what they will pay for and not to reduce overuse. There's zero reason it has to allow for unconstrained spending.
twblalock 10y ago
> By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free", that is precisely the irrational uncapitalistic decision making we do not need. You say that like you are predicting the outcome of an experiment that hasn't been tried -- but socialized medicine has been tried in dozens of countries, and the price and efficiency outcomes you predicted have not happened in any of them! In fact, people going to the doctor more often for things like a "little cough" is a good thing, because it increases the likelihood that serious conditions will be discovered early, in the course of treating less-serious conditions. The life expectancy of Japanese people, which is the highest in the world, has been largely credited to the fact that they visit doctors more frequently than most other people.
- Kenji 10y ago
  but socialized medicine has been tried in dozens of countries, and the price and efficiency outcomes you predicted have not happened in any of them This is factually wrong. In countries where such a socialization has happened, a vast increase in medical spending happened as a result (depending on how much it was socialized). And there seems to be no end to the increasing prices of insurances and doctors.
  - dTal 10y ago
    You know, even if that were true (which I doubt) due to vast numbers of people now getting treatment they would have done without before, who is to say that the value rendered to society by that does not exceed the expenditure? I don't think your idealized "market will fix everything" capitalist model takes account, among many other things, of the very true fact that people are frequently shortsighted and stupid.
DanBC 10y ago
> If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free" If you've had a cough for more than 3 weeks it's probably nothing, but it might be cancer. https://www.nhs.uk/be-clear-on-cancer/symptoms/lung-cancer https://www.nhs.uk/be-clear-on-cancer/symptoms/lung-cancer > If you've had a cough for three weeks or more, tell your doctor. It's probably nothing serious, but you're not wasting anyone's time by getting it checked out. Call your GP today. > By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free", that is precisely the irrational uncapitalistic decision making we do not need. We know you're wrong by looking at rates of medication compliance. People who are prescribed medication often don't take it correctly. This is the case for minor and severe illnesses; it's the case for life-threatening illnesses; and it's the case if people get their meds for free or if they pay market price for their meds.
- dTal 10y ago
  Worth noting that that website - probably the most down-to-earth, accessible public health resource on the internet - is the product of a socialized health care system.
wcummings 10y ago
>By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency This is pretty rich. What world do you live in where healthcare is an efficient market?
metaphorm 10y ago
your ideology is showing and its caused you to become absurdly detached from reality
dragonwriter 10y ago
> By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. The US has one of the least socialized and least efficient healthcare systems in the OECD, so I'm quite skeptical about that.

by Kenji 10y ago

baconner 10y ago

I think there's significant evidence that socialized healthcare does not increase medical costs vs a system like the us has. Quite the opposite. In the us our costs grow dramatically compared to the rest of the world yet our outcomes are worse than many socialized systems. Socialized healthcare can absolutely include limits on what they will pay for and not to reduce overuse. There's zero reason it has to allow for unconstrained spending.

twblalock 10y ago

> By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free", that is precisely the irrational uncapitalistic decision making we do not need. You say that like you are predicting the outcome of an experiment that hasn't been tried -- but socialized medicine has been tried in dozens of countries, and the price and efficiency outcomes you predicted have not happened in any of them! In fact, people going to the doctor more often for things like a "little cough" is a good thing, because it increases the likelihood that serious conditions will be discovered early, in the course of treating less-serious conditions. The life expectancy of Japanese people, which is the highest in the world, has been largely credited to the fact that they visit doctors more frequently than most other people.

Kenji 10y ago
but socialized medicine has been tried in dozens of countries, and the price and efficiency outcomes you predicted have not happened in any of them This is factually wrong. In countries where such a socialization has happened, a vast increase in medical spending happened as a result (depending on how much it was socialized). And there seems to be no end to the increasing prices of insurances and doctors.
- dTal 10y ago
  You know, even if that were true (which I doubt) due to vast numbers of people now getting treatment they would have done without before, who is to say that the value rendered to society by that does not exceed the expenditure? I don't think your idealized "market will fix everything" capitalist model takes account, among many other things, of the very true fact that people are frequently shortsighted and stupid.

DanBC 10y ago

> If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free" If you've had a cough for more than 3 weeks it's probably nothing, but it might be cancer. https://www.nhs.uk/be-clear-on-cancer/symptoms/lung-cancer https://www.nhs.uk/be-clear-on-cancer/symptoms/lung-cancer > If you've had a cough for three weeks or more, tell your doctor. It's probably nothing serious, but you're not wasting anyone's time by getting it checked out. Call your GP today. > By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. If everyone goes to the doctor because of a little cough because it's "free", that is precisely the irrational uncapitalistic decision making we do not need. We know you're wrong by looking at rates of medication compliance. People who are prescribed medication often don't take it correctly. This is the case for minor and severe illnesses; it's the case for life-threatening illnesses; and it's the case if people get their meds for free or if they pay market price for their meds.

dTal 10y ago
Worth noting that that website - probably the most down-to-earth, accessible public health resource on the internet - is the product of a socialized health care system.

wcummings 10y ago

>By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency This is pretty rich. What world do you live in where healthcare is an efficient market?

metaphorm 10y ago

your ideology is showing and its caused you to become absurdly detached from reality

dragonwriter 10y ago

> By socializing healthcare, we destroy its efficiency and drive up prices. The US has one of the least socialized and least efficient healthcare systems in the OECD, so I'm quite skeptical about that.