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A "broken political system", please. Like Syria? Most of the Arab Spring? Even Brexit? There are people literally laying down their lives to get an opportunity

A "broken political system", please. Like Syria? Most of the Arab Spring? Even Brexit? There are people literally laying down their lives to get an opportunity to participate in such a "broken" system as ours in the US. If you don't like the system, work to change it. In the US at least you won't go to jail for doing that. Good grief!

ethanbond 10y ago
Part of "working to change it" is by publishing articles that point out that it's broken. Good grief!
- nickbauman 10y ago
  So explain "broken". If you say "superdelegates" "ratifying temporary rules" or "DWS" or "Trump", I hate to break it to you: this is not what broken means.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Is the condescension actually necessary? How about the first past the post voting system that guarantees two party dominance and thus the silencing of anything but the most extreme and/or most well-funded opinions? That is what broken means.
    - nickbauman 10y ago
      Welcome to America, c. 1928. I'm not saying your criticism is incorrect, you're just really late to the party! With a voter participation that's as low as it is, is there any wonder why what you say is true? So, it's not condescension. I'm being complete sincere when I ask. Look at every democratic president since FDR. All of them are to the left of Clinton on many issues. Yet Sanders, to the left of her on many issues, actually moved the needle and almost unseated her. This is what progress actually looks like! I voted for Bernie yet I'm relieved Clinton will likely trounce Trump. So should you be. If you don't like the system, work to change it instead of claiming "it's broken" and throwing up your hands. I'll be right there beside you.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        No one said it's a new criticism. Nor did anyone say I'm not happy Bernie shifted Hillary, and that Hillary will beat Trump. Nor did I throw up my hands and say it's hopeless. Quite the opposite: I explicitly said that discussing the fact that it's broken is one very important part of fixing it. "Right there beside you" by being a cynical naysayer with a bone to pick with anyone who dares publicly criticize a system that isn't quite as bad as total anarchy?
pnathan 10y ago
As near as I can tell, the complaints of 'broken' come from people who don't participate. People who participate somehow seem to find ways to get some change in their desired direction.
- tanderson92 10y ago
  As near as I can tell, people who make generalizations end up making absurd statements about some person or belief that doesn't fit their narrow view. Does Malala Yousafzai think her country's political system is broken? What would this mean for your characterization?
- collyw 10y ago
  The powerful don't let us participate.
  - pnathan 10y ago
    Sorry, I see people participate constantly in local politics. Some are often referred to as NIMBYs. The kooks typically don't get voices, but if you want to effect change, find the locallest bit of politics you can and work on it.
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  But always less change than they wanted, for all participants, for all directions of desired change. Some view that as the reality of politics - it involves compromise with others of different views. And some others view that as the system being corrupt, because it refused to listen to their desires. While the system is less responsive than it should be, while there are elements of corruption, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the "take my ball and go home" whiners.
  - pnathan 10y ago
    > Some view that as the reality of politics - it involves compromise with others of different views. I've really aligned myself with this viewpoint the more I work in the corporate world. Things are a compromise, always. Purity is found in mathematics and, sometimes, theology. I also think there's room for a certain level of what is called corruption: it's important to allow for judgement and slop, people who aren't facially qualified, but through a few connections getting them work can demonstrate that they really ARE qualified and capable.
ilostmykeys 10y ago
Dude, that is an idiotic comparison. The world's richest nation conspires with Saudis and others in the region to change regime in Syria and in the process inadvertently (or covertly in the most twisted minds) fund ISIS, creating chaos in the Arab world, which the US, Britain, France (the colonial powers plus the new world superpower) have been doing for ages. You sound extremely arrogant if not ignorant.
- nickbauman 10y ago
  I upvoted you because you painted a great context for unwitting amount of entitlement of most Americans, but my assertion is completely orthogonal to this context.
CaptSpify 10y ago
We're not as bad as Syria, so that means we've hit a utopia? This is sliding scale, not binary
- nickbauman 10y ago
  I never said utopia. This started with the term "broken". Hence my original assertion. So I think we're in "violent agreement" here.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    Fine "We're not as bad as Syria, so that means we're not broken?" This is sliding scale, not binary
    - nickbauman 10y ago
      Ok now we have a valid disagreement. Our system has problems, but it truly is not broken. It needs people like you to want to improve on what we have. Throwing words like "broken" around to describe the problem gives fodder to the idea that they system should be burned to the ground. I don't think destruction is what you're aiming for. Is it?
      - CaptSpify 10y ago
        Broken systems can be fixed. I don't see anyone saying that it should be burned to the ground. That's quite a leap.
        nickbauman 10y ago
        Good. Let's roll up our sleeves!
dragonwriter 10y ago
> If you don't like the system, work to change it. In the US at least you won't go to jail for doing that. Prison, maybe not, but people go to jail all the time for that.

ethanbond 10y ago

Part of "working to change it" is by publishing articles that point out that it's broken. Good grief!

nickbauman 10y ago
So explain "broken". If you say "superdelegates" "ratifying temporary rules" or "DWS" or "Trump", I hate to break it to you: this is not what broken means.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Is the condescension actually necessary? How about the first past the post voting system that guarantees two party dominance and thus the silencing of anything but the most extreme and/or most well-funded opinions? That is what broken means.
  - nickbauman 10y ago
    Welcome to America, c. 1928. I'm not saying your criticism is incorrect, you're just really late to the party! With a voter participation that's as low as it is, is there any wonder why what you say is true? So, it's not condescension. I'm being complete sincere when I ask. Look at every democratic president since FDR. All of them are to the left of Clinton on many issues. Yet Sanders, to the left of her on many issues, actually moved the needle and almost unseated her. This is what progress actually looks like! I voted for Bernie yet I'm relieved Clinton will likely trounce Trump. So should you be. If you don't like the system, work to change it instead of claiming "it's broken" and throwing up your hands. I'll be right there beside you.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      No one said it's a new criticism. Nor did anyone say I'm not happy Bernie shifted Hillary, and that Hillary will beat Trump. Nor did I throw up my hands and say it's hopeless. Quite the opposite: I explicitly said that discussing the fact that it's broken is one very important part of fixing it. "Right there beside you" by being a cynical naysayer with a bone to pick with anyone who dares publicly criticize a system that isn't quite as bad as total anarchy?

pnathan 10y ago

As near as I can tell, the complaints of 'broken' come from people who don't participate. People who participate somehow seem to find ways to get some change in their desired direction.

tanderson92 10y ago
As near as I can tell, people who make generalizations end up making absurd statements about some person or belief that doesn't fit their narrow view. Does Malala Yousafzai think her country's political system is broken? What would this mean for your characterization?
collyw 10y ago
The powerful don't let us participate.
- pnathan 10y ago
  Sorry, I see people participate constantly in local politics. Some are often referred to as NIMBYs. The kooks typically don't get voices, but if you want to effect change, find the locallest bit of politics you can and work on it.
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
But always less change than they wanted, for all participants, for all directions of desired change. Some view that as the reality of politics - it involves compromise with others of different views. And some others view that as the system being corrupt, because it refused to listen to their desires. While the system is less responsive than it should be, while there are elements of corruption, I don't have a lot of sympathy for the "take my ball and go home" whiners.
- pnathan 10y ago
  > Some view that as the reality of politics - it involves compromise with others of different views. I've really aligned myself with this viewpoint the more I work in the corporate world. Things are a compromise, always. Purity is found in mathematics and, sometimes, theology. I also think there's room for a certain level of what is called corruption: it's important to allow for judgement and slop, people who aren't facially qualified, but through a few connections getting them work can demonstrate that they really ARE qualified and capable.

ilostmykeys 10y ago

Dude, that is an idiotic comparison. The world's richest nation conspires with Saudis and others in the region to change regime in Syria and in the process inadvertently (or covertly in the most twisted minds) fund ISIS, creating chaos in the Arab world, which the US, Britain, France (the colonial powers plus the new world superpower) have been doing for ages. You sound extremely arrogant if not ignorant.

nickbauman 10y ago
I upvoted you because you painted a great context for unwitting amount of entitlement of most Americans, but my assertion is completely orthogonal to this context.

CaptSpify 10y ago

We're not as bad as Syria, so that means we've hit a utopia? This is sliding scale, not binary

nickbauman 10y ago
I never said utopia. This started with the term "broken". Hence my original assertion. So I think we're in "violent agreement" here.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  Fine "We're not as bad as Syria, so that means we're not broken?" This is sliding scale, not binary
  - nickbauman 10y ago
    Ok now we have a valid disagreement. Our system has problems, but it truly is not broken. It needs people like you to want to improve on what we have. Throwing words like "broken" around to describe the problem gives fodder to the idea that they system should be burned to the ground. I don't think destruction is what you're aiming for. Is it?
    - CaptSpify 10y ago
      Broken systems can be fixed. I don't see anyone saying that it should be burned to the ground. That's quite a leap.
      - nickbauman 10y ago
        Good. Let's roll up our sleeves!

dragonwriter 10y ago

> If you don't like the system, work to change it. In the US at least you won't go to jail for doing that. Prison, maybe not, but people go to jail all the time for that.