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No, you weren't using "modern eyes intentionally in context". You wrote "I'd have wondered less about whether it could work in constrained environments", and yo

by dalke 10y ago

No, you weren't using "modern eyes intentionally in context". You wrote "I'd have wondered less about whether it could work in constrained environments", and your description comes across as unintentional. That's what I'm referring to. I grew up with microcomputers. My first machine had 16K, which I think is about what a 704 had. There's a lot you can do with 16K. Altair BASIC ran on 4K machines. Even modern micropython, meant for microcontollers, works in 64K, and that language wasn't designed to be space efficient. Oh, and from http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20693 http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/20693 : > Turbo Pascal version 1.0 shipped on one floppy disk. The total number of files on the disk was 10. Total floppy disk space used was 131,297 bytes. Total size of TURBO.COM (including the integrated development environment with compiler, Wordstar-style editor, and run-in-memory system) was 33,280 bytes.

nickpsecurity 10y ago
"No, you weren't using "modern eyes intentionally in context". You wrote "I'd have wondered less about whether it could work in constrained environments", and your description comes across as unintentional. That's what I'm referring to." You're putting a lot of weight into words I wrote casually. The intended meaning was that I hadn't investigated what a good, useful-today implementation of LISP could do in what would be a highly-constrained system today. Particularly, on cheap microcontrollers used in embedded systems. I have seen LISP's like femtolisp that use around 1K for implementation with good performance. So, original LISP being able to run on a 704 implied quite a lot to me. On other hand, BASIC and Pascal are low-level, static 3GL's. They're easy to compile efficiently into efficient code even without much optimization. I pulled it off for BASIC without knowing much about compilers. I'm sure it took talent to get the mix of functionality and efficiency in stuff like TurboPascal or some of the Altair apps. It's not telling me much about how a dynamic LISP will work on those platforms, though, given its execution style is so different. Especially if I code in a way that doesn't penalize readability or maintenance for efficiency. Fortunately, there's a pile of papers I can go through if I want to determine an optimal way to do that. Many of which are from 70's-80's. The 704 result just tells me embedded impact could happen if I kept it efficient. Micropython work is also impressive. I hope the point of my reply is more clear now.

by dalke 10y ago

nickpsecurity 10y ago

"No, you weren't using "modern eyes intentionally in context". You wrote "I'd have wondered less about whether it could work in constrained environments", and your description comes across as unintentional. That's what I'm referring to." You're putting a lot of weight into words I wrote casually. The intended meaning was that I hadn't investigated what a good, useful-today implementation of LISP could do in what would be a highly-constrained system today. Particularly, on cheap microcontrollers used in embedded systems. I have seen LISP's like femtolisp that use around 1K for implementation with good performance. So, original LISP being able to run on a 704 implied quite a lot to me. On other hand, BASIC and Pascal are low-level, static 3GL's. They're easy to compile efficiently into efficient code even without much optimization. I pulled it off for BASIC without knowing much about compilers. I'm sure it took talent to get the mix of functionality and efficiency in stuff like TurboPascal or some of the Altair apps. It's not telling me much about how a dynamic LISP will work on those platforms, though, given its execution style is so different. Especially if I code in a way that doesn't penalize readability or maintenance for efficiency. Fortunately, there's a pile of papers I can go through if I want to determine an optimal way to do that. Many of which are from 70's-80's. The 704 result just tells me embedded impact could happen if I kept it efficient. Micropython work is also impressive. I hope the point of my reply is more clear now.