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Yeah, right. With all due respect, that is bullshit. Say this to the Jewish community in Malmo, Sweden. The violence they have suffered at the hands of violent

by sheraz 10y ago

Yeah, right. With all due respect, that is bullshit. Say this to the Jewish community in Malmo, Sweden. The violence they have suffered at the hands of violent Islam is not a statistical anomaly. Say this to the Jewish community in Copenhagen. Say this to Israelis. Say this residents of Iraqis. Say this to residents of Turks. Say this to Syrians. Say this to women walking alone at night in Germany and Sweden. Terrorism is real in all its forms (Islamic, "Mentally ill", etc), and it has a real impact on entire countries. The recent attacks across France has hurt summer tourism. Synagogues and Hillel schools around the world have high security because they have been targets of terrorism. (And not just graffiti) Go live in some of these places (especially as a woman or Jew). Then come back to this conversation and tell me if you still believe that.

morgante 10y ago
With all due respect, I am Jewish and lived the last 4 years in the Middle East. I've also traveled extensively in both Europe and the Middle East, thank you very much. Terrorism is designed to breed fear, so it's no surprise that you (and others) are afraid. That doesn't mean it's not a statistical anomaly. You're conflating a lot of different things. War (what's affecting Syrians), sexual violence (why a woman might be afraid to walk at night), anti-semitism (which I've seen far more of from Trump supporters than any Muslims I know), and terrorism are different phenomena. > The recent attacks across France has hurt summer tourism. So? I don't dispute that a lot of people are irrationally afraid of terrorism, that doesn't make it a real threat any more than the fact that millions of people believing in reincarnation makes it real.
- sheraz 10y ago
  "But you are a single data point, and that does not prove anything" :-) My guess is that you are not a practicing Jew active in a community in Europe or the Middle East. If you were I doubt you would have this point of view. I know lots of non-practicing / secular Jews who share your point of view, and this comes from an ignorance of what security measures it takes to live a Jewish life in Europe. I don't blame them, and I don't blame you. How would you know the threat unless you have seen it before? I don't speak of only anti-semitic views. Antisemitism becomes terrorism when it is targeted violence against groups of people for the purpose of political or social objectives. It is not just war in Syria. There is terrorism. Car bombs, massacres, and more against the civilian population to keep the docile. ISIS wants power. Last, and this is my key point -- you are jumping through intellectual hoops to somehow magically arrive that ...and are you really saying that the likelihood of terrorism is the same as reincarnation? If so, then I'll stop here....
  - jamespo 10y ago
    So, your prefer your anecdata to his anecdata?
    - sheraz 10y ago
      of course :-)
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      It's hardly anecdotal evidence, while I do agree that "terrorism" in Europe is not currently a major threat to your life on average he's correct about the situation of the Jewish communities. Jews and Jewish businesses and institutions are attacked on a daily basis across Europe. The security around Jewish schools, temples, shops and even neighbourhoods is very substantial. In France soldiers still provide protection to Jewish institutions. The Jewish community in Malmo has been pretty decimated, about 80-90% of it left, it wasn't that big but it doesn't matter. Jews have been leaving Europe in droves in the past few years, the majority of "anti semitic" incidents in Europe involve individuals with near eastern or north african heritage, and if you count only violent crimes then the statistics are even worse. It doesn't take more than a simple Google search to find out that at least those parts of his claims are pretty dead on the money.
probably_wrong 10y ago
> Say this to women walking alone at night in Germany and Sweden. I can't speak for Sweden, but I can say: if you actually lived in Germany, you would know "terrorist attack" is very, very low on people's lists of priorities. I don't know a single person who changed a single habit because of it.
- sheraz 10y ago
  Do you think there is a level of political correctness that people cannot pierce in "polite conversation?" I feel that this is the case in Sweden. There are so many topics of discussion that are taboo that people avoid them. And, I think that includes this kind of terrorism and expression personal fears. For example, Swedes will not say they are scared of radical Islam because they are afraid of being perceived as being afraid of radical Islam. (And therefore, racist) That is why as ask the question -- do you think Germans have the same "meta-fear?" edit: clarity / grammar
  - probably_wrong 10y ago
    IMHO, I don't think Germans have that "meta-fear" you mention. I found Germans to be quite direct, and even the actual racists from the extreme right (the ones suggesting that they'll "give gas" to the refugee issue) do not seem concerned about that issue. There is a discussion about how to integrate a million refugees, but it's less "what if they kill us all?" and more "we have no idea how to accommodate so much people all at once".

by sheraz 10y ago

morgante 10y ago

With all due respect, I am Jewish and lived the last 4 years in the Middle East. I've also traveled extensively in both Europe and the Middle East, thank you very much. Terrorism is designed to breed fear, so it's no surprise that you (and others) are afraid. That doesn't mean it's not a statistical anomaly. You're conflating a lot of different things. War (what's affecting Syrians), sexual violence (why a woman might be afraid to walk at night), anti-semitism (which I've seen far more of from Trump supporters than any Muslims I know), and terrorism are different phenomena. > The recent attacks across France has hurt summer tourism. So? I don't dispute that a lot of people are irrationally afraid of terrorism, that doesn't make it a real threat any more than the fact that millions of people believing in reincarnation makes it real.

sheraz 10y ago
"But you are a single data point, and that does not prove anything" :-) My guess is that you are not a practicing Jew active in a community in Europe or the Middle East. If you were I doubt you would have this point of view. I know lots of non-practicing / secular Jews who share your point of view, and this comes from an ignorance of what security measures it takes to live a Jewish life in Europe. I don't blame them, and I don't blame you. How would you know the threat unless you have seen it before? I don't speak of only anti-semitic views. Antisemitism becomes terrorism when it is targeted violence against groups of people for the purpose of political or social objectives. It is not just war in Syria. There is terrorism. Car bombs, massacres, and more against the civilian population to keep the docile. ISIS wants power. Last, and this is my key point -- you are jumping through intellectual hoops to somehow magically arrive that ...and are you really saying that the likelihood of terrorism is the same as reincarnation? If so, then I'll stop here....
- jamespo 10y ago
  So, your prefer your anecdata to his anecdata?
  - sheraz 10y ago
    of course :-)
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    It's hardly anecdotal evidence, while I do agree that "terrorism" in Europe is not currently a major threat to your life on average he's correct about the situation of the Jewish communities. Jews and Jewish businesses and institutions are attacked on a daily basis across Europe. The security around Jewish schools, temples, shops and even neighbourhoods is very substantial. In France soldiers still provide protection to Jewish institutions. The Jewish community in Malmo has been pretty decimated, about 80-90% of it left, it wasn't that big but it doesn't matter. Jews have been leaving Europe in droves in the past few years, the majority of "anti semitic" incidents in Europe involve individuals with near eastern or north african heritage, and if you count only violent crimes then the statistics are even worse. It doesn't take more than a simple Google search to find out that at least those parts of his claims are pretty dead on the money.

probably_wrong 10y ago

> Say this to women walking alone at night in Germany and Sweden. I can't speak for Sweden, but I can say: if you actually lived in Germany, you would know "terrorist attack" is very, very low on people's lists of priorities. I don't know a single person who changed a single habit because of it.

sheraz 10y ago
Do you think there is a level of political correctness that people cannot pierce in "polite conversation?" I feel that this is the case in Sweden. There are so many topics of discussion that are taboo that people avoid them. And, I think that includes this kind of terrorism and expression personal fears. For example, Swedes will not say they are scared of radical Islam because they are afraid of being perceived as being afraid of radical Islam. (And therefore, racist) That is why as ask the question -- do you think Germans have the same "meta-fear?" edit: clarity / grammar
- probably_wrong 10y ago
  IMHO, I don't think Germans have that "meta-fear" you mention. I found Germans to be quite direct, and even the actual racists from the extreme right (the ones suggesting that they'll "give gas" to the refugee issue) do not seem concerned about that issue. There is a discussion about how to integrate a million refugees, but it's less "what if they kill us all?" and more "we have no idea how to accommodate so much people all at once".