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Stopping innovation is what I'm all about! Actually I dislike uber because of how they flout regulations and hurt workers. But if they get rid of the workers a

Stopping innovation is what I'm all about! Actually I dislike uber because of how they flout regulations and hurt workers. But if they get rid of the workers altogether, It would be hard to complain. Especially if fairs become a fraction of the price.

Pyxl101 10y ago
What regulations have they flouted? I'd be interested to learn more because I hear this claim occasionally but haven't heard the details behind it. Could you share more details?
- Aaargh20318 10y ago
  They provide a taxi service without a proper taxi license.
  - Pyxl101 10y ago
    Could you be more specific? In which jurisdiction do they provide a taxi service without a license? Could you provide a source? Many (most?) jurisdictions differentiate between for-hire-vehicles and taxis, and Uber doesn't operate unlicensed taxis as far as I know. I don't want to claim to know everything about Uber - but services like their black car and UberX service are not considered taxis in most jurisdictions that I'm aware of, for a number of reasons including because they accept only rides that were arranged in advance, they have no special paint job or advertising, etc. According to Quora, Uber does operate "UberTaxis" and those are actual medallioned taxis: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-UberX-Uber-Black-and-Uber-Taxi https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-Uber... - so it seems to me that Uber's classic services were never regulated by taxi laws to begin with, and the actual taxi services they have now comply with them. I'd like to learn more about this topic though, since I find the boundary between business and law interesting in this case, so I will be glad to review further details if someone can provide them. (I have no connection to Uber nor that industry except as a once-in-a-while customer.)
    - pyrale 10y ago
      Uber has been condemned in several euro countries for operating illegal services and bankrolling their drivers when they get caught. Googling 'uber pays lawyers to drivers' also gives matches for NA although I didn't look the details.
  - pyronik 10y ago
    The only reason taxi license (and most other licenses in general) exist so that one group of people can monopolize a business without worry of competition. And with that you get smelly rude taxi drivers.... who drive away if they don't like your destination and are crazy drivers. If uber is guilty of "flouting regulations", that makes me like them even more.
  - tn13 10y ago
    May be it is the licensing requirement that is more ridiculous here.
dagw 10y ago
Especially if fairs become a fraction of the price. I wonder if prices will drop that much. Is owning and maintaining a massive fleet of driver-less cars really that much cheaper than just paying a bunch drivers that own and maintain their own car?
- MagnumOpus 10y ago
  Yes it is. First, efficiency of utilisation: Driverless cars can be driven around the clock (modulo maintenance and refueling time), so car depreciation/maintenance gets amortised amongst more passengers. Second, efficiency of scale in maintenance: It is extremely unlikely that the maintenance costs that uber drivers take on - buying parts retail and taking their car to the nearest garage for repairs - are lower than what would be a dedicated factory-like maintenance shop for thousands of automatic cabs. And third of course: direct wage costs of the driver once you subtract car maintenance from fares is still a lot bigger than zero, so eliminating that saves money.
  - abricot 10y ago
    Note, that most of those points: Buying parts, cars, repairing is stuff they don't pay a dime for now. They only pay a wage to drivers. The structure of their cost changes completely - which is very hard to make any sane calculations on. And if they are not first with driverless cars, big national cab-companies are also in the run.
    - mcintyre1994 10y ago
      The latest Tesla masterplan includes a global fleet of self driving taxis too.
  - dagw 10y ago
    Driverless cars can be driven around the clock So in theory can normal cars. Many taxi companies (and I'm assuming at least some Uber drivers) share one car between 2-5 drivers to maximize the time on the road. The other aspect you're not considering is that even after you take economies of scale into account a driverless car will almost certainly cost more than the market price of the current median Uber car. I'm guessing that $3000-5000 will get you a perfectly Uber-worthy car that will give you years of fairly trouble free use. What will a driverless car cost? And that is ignoring the fact that most Uber drivers would have owned and maintained a car even if they had had a different job, so the only 'cost' is the marginal cost of extra maintenance being used as an Uber car causes. Also I wouldn't be surprised if maintenance costs will also be higher at least in the short-to-medium term due the complicated and experimental nature of the components involved. So even if there are long term savings I imagine that they will take a long time to materialize and even longer to show up in fare-prices, unless Uber decides to subsidize driverless fare to kick start the market.
tn13 10y ago
Yes. I am aware of people who want to blow up all the bulbs because it hurts the candlemakers.

Pyxl101 10y ago

What regulations have they flouted? I'd be interested to learn more because I hear this claim occasionally but haven't heard the details behind it. Could you share more details?

Aaargh20318 10y ago
They provide a taxi service without a proper taxi license.
- Pyxl101 10y ago
  Could you be more specific? In which jurisdiction do they provide a taxi service without a license? Could you provide a source? Many (most?) jurisdictions differentiate between for-hire-vehicles and taxis, and Uber doesn't operate unlicensed taxis as far as I know. I don't want to claim to know everything about Uber - but services like their black car and UberX service are not considered taxis in most jurisdictions that I'm aware of, for a number of reasons including because they accept only rides that were arranged in advance, they have no special paint job or advertising, etc. According to Quora, Uber does operate "UberTaxis" and those are actual medallioned taxis: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-UberX-Uber-Black-and-Uber-Taxi https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-Uber... - so it seems to me that Uber's classic services were never regulated by taxi laws to begin with, and the actual taxi services they have now comply with them. I'd like to learn more about this topic though, since I find the boundary between business and law interesting in this case, so I will be glad to review further details if someone can provide them. (I have no connection to Uber nor that industry except as a once-in-a-while customer.)
  - pyrale 10y ago
    Uber has been condemned in several euro countries for operating illegal services and bankrolling their drivers when they get caught. Googling 'uber pays lawyers to drivers' also gives matches for NA although I didn't look the details.
- pyronik 10y ago
  The only reason taxi license (and most other licenses in general) exist so that one group of people can monopolize a business without worry of competition. And with that you get smelly rude taxi drivers.... who drive away if they don't like your destination and are crazy drivers. If uber is guilty of "flouting regulations", that makes me like them even more.
- tn13 10y ago
  May be it is the licensing requirement that is more ridiculous here.

dagw 10y ago

Especially if fairs become a fraction of the price. I wonder if prices will drop that much. Is owning and maintaining a massive fleet of driver-less cars really that much cheaper than just paying a bunch drivers that own and maintain their own car?

MagnumOpus 10y ago
Yes it is. First, efficiency of utilisation: Driverless cars can be driven around the clock (modulo maintenance and refueling time), so car depreciation/maintenance gets amortised amongst more passengers. Second, efficiency of scale in maintenance: It is extremely unlikely that the maintenance costs that uber drivers take on - buying parts retail and taking their car to the nearest garage for repairs - are lower than what would be a dedicated factory-like maintenance shop for thousands of automatic cabs. And third of course: direct wage costs of the driver once you subtract car maintenance from fares is still a lot bigger than zero, so eliminating that saves money.
- abricot 10y ago
  Note, that most of those points: Buying parts, cars, repairing is stuff they don't pay a dime for now. They only pay a wage to drivers. The structure of their cost changes completely - which is very hard to make any sane calculations on. And if they are not first with driverless cars, big national cab-companies are also in the run.
  - mcintyre1994 10y ago
    The latest Tesla masterplan includes a global fleet of self driving taxis too.
- dagw 10y ago
  Driverless cars can be driven around the clock So in theory can normal cars. Many taxi companies (and I'm assuming at least some Uber drivers) share one car between 2-5 drivers to maximize the time on the road. The other aspect you're not considering is that even after you take economies of scale into account a driverless car will almost certainly cost more than the market price of the current median Uber car. I'm guessing that $3000-5000 will get you a perfectly Uber-worthy car that will give you years of fairly trouble free use. What will a driverless car cost? And that is ignoring the fact that most Uber drivers would have owned and maintained a car even if they had had a different job, so the only 'cost' is the marginal cost of extra maintenance being used as an Uber car causes. Also I wouldn't be surprised if maintenance costs will also be higher at least in the short-to-medium term due the complicated and experimental nature of the components involved. So even if there are long term savings I imagine that they will take a long time to materialize and even longer to show up in fare-prices, unless Uber decides to subsidize driverless fare to kick start the market.

tn13 10y ago

Yes. I am aware of people who want to blow up all the bulbs because it hurts the candlemakers.