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I imagine there's a certain level of crime/transport where there's almost no distinction between the two. The truth is Melbourne is a safe modern western city,

I imagine there's a certain level of crime/transport where there's almost no distinction between the two. The truth is Melbourne is a safe modern western city, which is to say practically 0 or min() as far as cities go. I've only moved to Melbourne 2 years ago. I understand the transport thing compared to Tokyo, but again, I imagine there a level where the scale tops out. Melbournians love to bitch about their transport, and the train capacity isn't keeping up with the growth in the burbs, but live within the inside of the tram network and you're basically set and timetable-less. Plus we do have the free tram zone and all night transport now. Of course, I tell people there are two Melbournes. Zone 1: transport everywhere, compact walking city. Zone 2: suburban sprawl, connected by single train lines into the city and free ways. Live in Zone 1 and you generally don't go to Zone 2. Live in Zone 2, and thank god you don't have a Sydney commute our house prices :p

dcw303 10y ago
I suppose you are right. I'll concede that they both have public transport systems that get you to where you need to go, and the extra efficiency in the Tokyo system tops out the scale they are using to measure. But it is interesting that Tokyo's train system has to be efficient, to support the amount of passengers that go through it. Shinagawa station after a 15 minute delay on the Yamanote line in rush hour is wall-to-wall people, whereas the same in Melbourne is just a bunch of grumpy commuters stuck at Flinders St :)
greggman 10y ago
I'm not sure I agree about the crime or at least it doesn't match my experience I think part of the issue might be what crime brings up in your mind. AFAICT in pretty much any "western" city (Paris, London, Brussels, Hamburg, NYC, LA, SF) the odds of having something stolen are extremely high. In SF if you leave something visible in your car overnight my experience is the odds are greater than 1 in 2 that the next morning you'll find your car window has been bashed in and the item/items stolen. In Paris if you look away from your purse stuff will be stolen. In Brussels if you sit at a bench and put your bag under the bench someone will reach under from the other side and steal your bag. So far in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Singapore that doesn't seem to be the case. So while the odds of me getting hurt in one city vs another might be low the odds of me experiencing theft seem much higher in some of those top cities than others. I'd be curious to know how Australia's and Canada's cities do along that dimension. Can you leave your laptop at a Starbucks unattended for an 10-60 mins and not have it stolen?
- mattnewport 10y ago
  My completely subjective experience is that Vancouver 'feels' a lot safer than SF but that's only based on living in Vancouver and visiting SF (which has made me not really want to live there). I don't own a car but my building has outdoor parking and break-ins appear to be unusual either there or out on the street. I don't think it would be particularly wise to leave a laptop unattended in Starbucks but I'd also be somewhat surprised if one was stolen if left whilst going to the washroom. In 13 years living in Vancouver I've never had anything stolen. I don't hear about it very often either (can't recall the last time I heard a friend have anything stolen). I also have not heard of anyone I know being mugged here.
- jabits 10y ago
  Your SF example is absurd. Half the cars with stuff in them at night are not broken into. My experience in Bernal Heights is not like you describe. I agree about Tokyo. On the other hand, here in Maui, where I live now, I had a pair of flip-flops stolen during a 20 minute beach walk.
  - greggman 10y ago
    Maybe Bernal Heights is different but you walk down 18th next to Dolores park and often see the piles of glass every 3-4 parking spots. Same on Folsom in SOMA. Same on 11th. Same on Franklin. The same is also bad in LA but SF seems worse. But hey, you don't have to take my word for it http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-francisco-crime-policy/479880/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-fran...

dcw303 10y ago

I suppose you are right. I'll concede that they both have public transport systems that get you to where you need to go, and the extra efficiency in the Tokyo system tops out the scale they are using to measure. But it is interesting that Tokyo's train system has to be efficient, to support the amount of passengers that go through it. Shinagawa station after a 15 minute delay on the Yamanote line in rush hour is wall-to-wall people, whereas the same in Melbourne is just a bunch of grumpy commuters stuck at Flinders St :)

greggman 10y ago

I'm not sure I agree about the crime or at least it doesn't match my experience I think part of the issue might be what crime brings up in your mind. AFAICT in pretty much any "western" city (Paris, London, Brussels, Hamburg, NYC, LA, SF) the odds of having something stolen are extremely high. In SF if you leave something visible in your car overnight my experience is the odds are greater than 1 in 2 that the next morning you'll find your car window has been bashed in and the item/items stolen. In Paris if you look away from your purse stuff will be stolen. In Brussels if you sit at a bench and put your bag under the bench someone will reach under from the other side and steal your bag. So far in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Singapore that doesn't seem to be the case. So while the odds of me getting hurt in one city vs another might be low the odds of me experiencing theft seem much higher in some of those top cities than others. I'd be curious to know how Australia's and Canada's cities do along that dimension. Can you leave your laptop at a Starbucks unattended for an 10-60 mins and not have it stolen?

mattnewport 10y ago
My completely subjective experience is that Vancouver 'feels' a lot safer than SF but that's only based on living in Vancouver and visiting SF (which has made me not really want to live there). I don't own a car but my building has outdoor parking and break-ins appear to be unusual either there or out on the street. I don't think it would be particularly wise to leave a laptop unattended in Starbucks but I'd also be somewhat surprised if one was stolen if left whilst going to the washroom. In 13 years living in Vancouver I've never had anything stolen. I don't hear about it very often either (can't recall the last time I heard a friend have anything stolen). I also have not heard of anyone I know being mugged here.
jabits 10y ago
Your SF example is absurd. Half the cars with stuff in them at night are not broken into. My experience in Bernal Heights is not like you describe. I agree about Tokyo. On the other hand, here in Maui, where I live now, I had a pair of flip-flops stolen during a 20 minute beach walk.
- greggman 10y ago
  Maybe Bernal Heights is different but you walk down 18th next to Dolores park and often see the piles of glass every 3-4 parking spots. Same on Folsom in SOMA. Same on 11th. Same on Franklin. The same is also bad in LA but SF seems worse. But hey, you don't have to take my word for it http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-francisco-crime-policy/479880/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/san-fran...