4 ms·

Actually the mechanism of homeopathy isn't know. Clinic results are differente from test with placebo

by saskurambo 10y ago

alex_anglin 10y ago
Source?
- DanBC 10y ago
  The source is not in any way controversial. When you run a well-conducted trial you find zero benefit to homeopathy. When you run a poorly-conducted study, with poor blinding or weak randomization you find some benefits to homeopathy. When you don't even run a study, but just give people homeopathy in clinics they'll tell you it works because they say they can feel a difference.
danbruc 10y ago
Do you have a reliable source for that? I omitted adding a source because if you look for scientific research on homeopathy you find essentially only studies stating that it does not work, Wikipedia has plenty of references.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I too would be interested in a source. I don't think that homeopathy works, but I am willing to admit I can be wrong. Doubt is essential to make progress: http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ Also, the placebo effect shouldn't be used dismissively. If you convince someone they should be feeling pain (tell them they're next to a low frequency transmitter that causes pain when they're really next to an empty speaker box), that pain is real in the sense their nervous system can have a physical reaction to it. It is in their heads, but perceptions can generate physical responses.
  - danbruc 10y ago
    That was not meant dismissive, the placebo effect is of course a well established and very real effect. But there is nothing more than the placebo effect in homeopathy.
    - ekianjo 10y ago
      Note that most of what we call placebo effect is actually return to the mean. True placebo effect exists but its much more limited than what people usually think.
      - danbruc 10y ago
        Naively I would expect regression toward the mean to weaken the placebo effect - using a placebo seems a better idea in light cases and even in a controlled study you would probably not be allowed to only use placebos in severe cases so that it seems more likely that the situation worsens which would reduce the observed strength of the placebo effect in the other direction.
        ekianjo 10y ago
        But placebo only work in the situations considered as light cases, where regression to the mean is still feasible. Once you consider cancer, severe infections or other stuff like that, there is no placebo effect anymore. That's why I said most of the placebo effect is regression to the mean, and once you study diseases where regression to the mean never occur, then the placebo effect is in-existent.
  - saalweachter 10y ago
    You have to be very, very when discussing the placebo effect to distinguish between reporting differences and actual differences. That gets very complicated when you only have self-reporting of a subjective state to evaluate things on. The classic study was on asthma treatments. Patients would subjectively report feeling better when on the placebo treatment, but the objective measurements of lung function showed no difference. If people report being in less pain or less depressed when on a placebo treatment but attempt & complete suicide at the same rate... well, fuck.
- saskurambo 10y ago
  Proving homeopathics
- saskurambo 10y ago
  The knowledge of homeparhy in Science is really limited. We cab image the the surface of the top of iceberg as what know the science of homeopathy. All the iceberg is what you can know learning study and practice homeopathy for years or a live. this is my vision
waterphone 10y ago
That is simply not correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html
- saskurambo 10y ago
  Mmmm better provide also homeopatic reference
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    No, homeopatic anecdotes are not science. Science has studied homeopathy and found it to be complete and utter nonsense. That's the end of the story, it's superstition and does not work. You either understand that, or remain willfully ignorant. There are no other options. Homeopathy doesn't work, that's a fact, what part about that known fact seems to confuse you? Why are you insisting something that is KNOWN to not work, works? What don't you get?
Aelinsaar 10y ago
It's known, and it's called "Placebo".
gnaritas 10y ago
There is no mechanism of homeopathy other than the placebo effect, homeopathy is pseudo-scientific bullshit, simple as that, it's fiction. If you think it works, it only demonstrates that you have no understanding of the placebo effect and are easily taken in by bullshit. > Clinic results are differente from test with placebo reply No they aren't.
- saskurambo 10y ago
  Yes they are differents. Homeopathy cure the person not the hill. In test only the hill is observed not the unity of person. Tests are exclusives, clinics is inclusives
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    I'll just assume English isn't your first language because nothing you just said makes a lick of sense.

Actually the mechanism of homeopathy isn't know. Clinic results are differente from test with placebo

alex_anglin 10y ago

Source?

DanBC 10y ago
The source is not in any way controversial. When you run a well-conducted trial you find zero benefit to homeopathy. When you run a poorly-conducted study, with poor blinding or weak randomization you find some benefits to homeopathy. When you don't even run a study, but just give people homeopathy in clinics they'll tell you it works because they say they can feel a difference.

danbruc 10y ago

Do you have a reliable source for that? I omitted adding a source because if you look for scientific research on homeopathy you find essentially only studies stating that it does not work, Wikipedia has plenty of references.

djsumdog 10y ago
I too would be interested in a source. I don't think that homeopathy works, but I am willing to admit I can be wrong. Doubt is essential to make progress: http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ http://khanism.org/science/doubt/ Also, the placebo effect shouldn't be used dismissively. If you convince someone they should be feeling pain (tell them they're next to a low frequency transmitter that causes pain when they're really next to an empty speaker box), that pain is real in the sense their nervous system can have a physical reaction to it. It is in their heads, but perceptions can generate physical responses.
- danbruc 10y ago
  That was not meant dismissive, the placebo effect is of course a well established and very real effect. But there is nothing more than the placebo effect in homeopathy.
  - ekianjo 10y ago
    Note that most of what we call placebo effect is actually return to the mean. True placebo effect exists but its much more limited than what people usually think.
    - danbruc 10y ago
      Naively I would expect regression toward the mean to weaken the placebo effect - using a placebo seems a better idea in light cases and even in a controlled study you would probably not be allowed to only use placebos in severe cases so that it seems more likely that the situation worsens which would reduce the observed strength of the placebo effect in the other direction.
      - ekianjo 10y ago
        But placebo only work in the situations considered as light cases, where regression to the mean is still feasible. Once you consider cancer, severe infections or other stuff like that, there is no placebo effect anymore. That's why I said most of the placebo effect is regression to the mean, and once you study diseases where regression to the mean never occur, then the placebo effect is in-existent.
- saalweachter 10y ago
  You have to be very, very when discussing the placebo effect to distinguish between reporting differences and actual differences. That gets very complicated when you only have self-reporting of a subjective state to evaluate things on. The classic study was on asthma treatments. Patients would subjectively report feeling better when on the placebo treatment, but the objective measurements of lung function showed no difference. If people report being in less pain or less depressed when on a placebo treatment but attempt & complete suicide at the same rate... well, fuck.
saskurambo 10y ago
Proving homeopathics
saskurambo 10y ago
The knowledge of homeparhy in Science is really limited. We cab image the the surface of the top of iceberg as what know the science of homeopathy. All the iceberg is what you can know learning study and practice homeopathy for years or a live. this is my vision

waterphone 10y ago

That is simply not correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy#Efficacy https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 https://nccih.nih.gov/health/homeopathy#hed4 http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

saskurambo 10y ago
Mmmm better provide also homeopatic reference
- gnaritas 10y ago
  No, homeopatic anecdotes are not science. Science has studied homeopathy and found it to be complete and utter nonsense. That's the end of the story, it's superstition and does not work. You either understand that, or remain willfully ignorant. There are no other options. Homeopathy doesn't work, that's a fact, what part about that known fact seems to confuse you? Why are you insisting something that is KNOWN to not work, works? What don't you get?

Aelinsaar 10y ago

It's known, and it's called "Placebo".

gnaritas 10y ago

There is no mechanism of homeopathy other than the placebo effect, homeopathy is pseudo-scientific bullshit, simple as that, it's fiction. If you think it works, it only demonstrates that you have no understanding of the placebo effect and are easily taken in by bullshit. > Clinic results are differente from test with placebo reply No they aren't.

saskurambo 10y ago
Yes they are differents. Homeopathy cure the person not the hill. In test only the hill is observed not the unity of person. Tests are exclusives, clinics is inclusives
- gnaritas 10y ago
  I'll just assume English isn't your first language because nothing you just said makes a lick of sense.