5 ms·

From a more philosophical point of view; the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong. I like what these people are doing but

From a more philosophical point of view; the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong. I like what these people are doing but I don't think this could/should be done for more serious projects considering the amount of hacking that's going on at more centralized services like google-drive and dropbox. But if that's not their aim then that's all good I guess. About shared data, can't you just use google spreadsheets?

jstayton 10y ago
For most people considering Sandstorm, Google is probably the last place they'd feel comfortable sharing their data.
- newsat13 10y ago
  Their main page uses Google Analytics. Just saying.
kentonv 10y ago
> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong. I'm not saying that everyone should be a programmer. I'm saying that everyone who chooses to be a programmer and who produces useful code should have the ability to share their application with other people -- who may not be programmers. Think of it like YouTube. YouTube doesn't replace film studios. But there's a whole lot of content on YouTube that you probably like, but that would never be produced by a film studio.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Klockan 10y ago
  Kinda like flash games?
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong because?
- ahartman00 10y ago
  specialization of labor. different people are good at different things. some people have great people skills, but are poor at math/logic. they might make great salespeople, but poor engineers. why not use everyones' strengths? "when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" I remember my creative thinking class, we were asked to brainstorm a solution to clearing the sidewalks of snow. I proposed a snow shoveling robot. the mechanical engineers had ideas like magnifying glasses above sidewalks to heat them, or making the sidewalks black so they absorb more heat. those were probably more elegant/cheaper solutions. society benefits from different viewpoints.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
    I think that argument at best supports the claim that there might be some things that not (almost) everyone should know/should be able to do, but certainly not that programming specifically is amongst those. Your argument would equally apply to arithmetic or reading and writing. Would you say that we should drop those from the school curriculum as well? If not, what distinguishes programming from those that it should not be a skill that's taught to everyone?
    - ahartman00 10y ago
      sorry for the late reply, i somehow didnt see this. "I think that argument at best supports the claim that there might be some things that not (almost) everyone should know/should be able to do, but certainly not that programming specifically is amongst those" true, good point. "If not, what distinguishes programming from those that it should not be a skill that's taught to everyone?" reading/writing are useful as they are important for conveying information. world news, stop signs, history, etc. Programming is useful, but I wouldnt call it a fundamental the same way reading, writing, math and history are. when people cant read or write, they can cause traffic accidents. They can vote foolishly(if they can find the polling place). People who cant do math will not understand their personal finances. People who dont know history will repeat it. I dont see society falling apart because people can't make their own apps. Now for what its worth, I think it might be worthwhile to teach people some basic shell or python scripting, as that could make their jobs more pleasant by reducing the repetitive, boring work. But would we add a year of mandatory schooling? or would we cut something else? Because I do think those other subjects are necessary. I just dont see why everyone should be a programmer, and I dont think I've ever heard a good reason, other than asserting that it's the future, and there is no other way.
__jal 10y ago
> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong For this to be fruitful, we need to define terms. I agree that the notion that "everyone" should have the skill set of a full-time software engineer is silly. But I don't think that's what people mean when they say that. The idea that "everyone" should be capable of creating software automation, I think, is a good one. By that I am thinking of things like spreadsheets, IFTTT, the late Yahoo Pipes, maybe some very basic scripting. I don't see this as substantially different than asking that "everybody" learn multiplication tables, basic algebra or how to balance a checkbook. Or put another way, it is possible to function without basic algebra or trivially basic accounting knowledge, but extremely limiting. And I think that the ability to automate routine, simple things you want your computer/phone/cloud-enabled toaster-bunion remover to do on your behalf is becoming a similar basic life skill.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

jstayton 10y ago

For most people considering Sandstorm, Google is probably the last place they'd feel comfortable sharing their data.

newsat13 10y ago
Their main page uses Google Analytics. Just saying.

kentonv 10y ago

> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong. I'm not saying that everyone should be a programmer. I'm saying that everyone who chooses to be a programmer and who produces useful code should have the ability to share their application with other people -- who may not be programmers. Think of it like YouTube. YouTube doesn't replace film studios. But there's a whole lot of content on YouTube that you probably like, but that would never be produced by a film studio.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Klockan 10y ago
Kinda like flash games?

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago

> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong because?

ahartman00 10y ago
specialization of labor. different people are good at different things. some people have great people skills, but are poor at math/logic. they might make great salespeople, but poor engineers. why not use everyones' strengths? "when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" I remember my creative thinking class, we were asked to brainstorm a solution to clearing the sidewalks of snow. I proposed a snow shoveling robot. the mechanical engineers had ideas like magnifying glasses above sidewalks to heat them, or making the sidewalks black so they absorb more heat. those were probably more elegant/cheaper solutions. society benefits from different viewpoints.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 10y ago
  I think that argument at best supports the claim that there might be some things that not (almost) everyone should know/should be able to do, but certainly not that programming specifically is amongst those. Your argument would equally apply to arithmetic or reading and writing. Would you say that we should drop those from the school curriculum as well? If not, what distinguishes programming from those that it should not be a skill that's taught to everyone?
  - ahartman00 10y ago
    sorry for the late reply, i somehow didnt see this. "I think that argument at best supports the claim that there might be some things that not (almost) everyone should know/should be able to do, but certainly not that programming specifically is amongst those" true, good point. "If not, what distinguishes programming from those that it should not be a skill that's taught to everyone?" reading/writing are useful as they are important for conveying information. world news, stop signs, history, etc. Programming is useful, but I wouldnt call it a fundamental the same way reading, writing, math and history are. when people cant read or write, they can cause traffic accidents. They can vote foolishly(if they can find the polling place). People who cant do math will not understand their personal finances. People who dont know history will repeat it. I dont see society falling apart because people can't make their own apps. Now for what its worth, I think it might be worthwhile to teach people some basic shell or python scripting, as that could make their jobs more pleasant by reducing the repetitive, boring work. But would we add a year of mandatory schooling? or would we cut something else? Because I do think those other subjects are necessary. I just dont see why everyone should be a programmer, and I dont think I've ever heard a good reason, other than asserting that it's the future, and there is no other way.

__jal 10y ago

> the idea that everyone should become a programmer is honestly just plain wrong For this to be fruitful, we need to define terms. I agree that the notion that "everyone" should have the skill set of a full-time software engineer is silly. But I don't think that's what people mean when they say that. The idea that "everyone" should be capable of creating software automation, I think, is a good one. By that I am thinking of things like spreadsheets, IFTTT, the late Yahoo Pipes, maybe some very basic scripting. I don't see this as substantially different than asking that "everybody" learn multiplication tables, basic algebra or how to balance a checkbook. Or put another way, it is possible to function without basic algebra or trivially basic accounting knowledge, but extremely limiting. And I think that the ability to automate routine, simple things you want your computer/phone/cloud-enabled toaster-bunion remover to do on your behalf is becoming a similar basic life skill.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]