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If you are interested in taking this idea further, all life is game, I'd recommend the philosophy book 'finite and infinite games'. Can be applied to all kinds

If you are interested in taking this idea further, all life is game, I'd recommend the philosophy book 'finite and infinite games'. Can be applied to all kinds of aspects of human life, eg a startup is a game played by founders who win with a successful exit. With this philosophy text, Carse demonstrates a way of looking at actions in life as being a part of at least two types of what he describes as "games", finite and infinite. Both games are played within rules, as agreed upon by the participants; however, the meaning of the rules is different for the two types of games. The book stresses a non-serious (or "playful") view of life on the part of "players", referring to their choices as "moves", and societal constructs and mores as "rules" and "boundaries". In short, a finite game is played with the purpose of winning (thus ending the game), while an infinite game is played with the purpose of continuing the play.

agumonkey 10y ago
When thinking about games I have a feeling that it channels our survival / killing instincts into symbolic versions to gather the benefits (new strategies, pleasure, bonding, physical improvements).
astazangasta 10y ago
I don't think all life is a game in this way; with a game we hold ourselves to the rules for their own sake - the pleasure we get from play is that of acting within the sandbox we've defined. It is a sketch of life, a model, a way to explore an idea. In the context of a game we might be adversaries, but I am intimately aware of the boundary, and that we are at play - our adversarial relationship is not "real". We often say, "It's just a game", and the just is crucial to the difference. This is different from social mores, which are boundaries we respect because transgression has consequences we care about. There are real ends; it's NOT just a game. There is no space or context beyond what happens in life, as there is in a game (taking place within the shell of the true life). The purpose of play, and playing games, is to prepare us for the actual contests with outcomes that we are invested in. Of course we might USE play, and games, as tools in the course of achieving real ends (like the Olympics as a goal for furthering peace), but this is different from those ends (peace) being a game in themselves.
- munificent 10y ago
  > This is different from social mores, which are boundaries we respect because transgression has consequences we care about. There are real ends; it's NOT just a game. This just means the games can nest. In the innermost game, you treat social mores as rules to follow and try to excel within them. But there is a surrounding meta-game where you weigh the pros and cons of transgressing the mores and consequences that leads to. In that game, the mores are no longer rules and transgressing is now a move. Around that, yet another game where the moves are putting effort into changing social rules. And so on.
  - astazangasta 10y ago
    Except they don't nest. There is no boundary between the social mores 'game' and the transgression 'game', no point where the consequences are contained and the outcome doesn't matter. You're declaring them to be a 'game' because i am evaluating outcomes, but they aren't the same - the results continue to matter to my life.
    - JoshuaDavid 10y ago
      Winning a large chess tournament with a significant cash prize would also matter to the rest of your life, but that doesn't mean that chess is not a game.
      - astazangasta 10y ago
        No, it means 'winning a large amount of money' is not a game. The chess doesn't matter in this scenario.
  - GarvielLoken 10y ago
    Why would you do that? It sounds very schizophrenic to me to make one self have such a distance to normal social and emotional life that one represent it to one self as a game. To treat a social overstep as a rule break instead of understanding emphatically that you have caused hurt i would consider schizophrenic / autism. I think it is much more healthy, in a mental health way, to not re-present life and instead experience it directly.

agumonkey 10y ago

When thinking about games I have a feeling that it channels our survival / killing instincts into symbolic versions to gather the benefits (new strategies, pleasure, bonding, physical improvements).

astazangasta 10y ago

I don't think all life is a game in this way; with a game we hold ourselves to the rules for their own sake - the pleasure we get from play is that of acting within the sandbox we've defined. It is a sketch of life, a model, a way to explore an idea. In the context of a game we might be adversaries, but I am intimately aware of the boundary, and that we are at play - our adversarial relationship is not "real". We often say, "It's just a game", and the just is crucial to the difference. This is different from social mores, which are boundaries we respect because transgression has consequences we care about. There are real ends; it's NOT just a game. There is no space or context beyond what happens in life, as there is in a game (taking place within the shell of the true life). The purpose of play, and playing games, is to prepare us for the actual contests with outcomes that we are invested in. Of course we might USE play, and games, as tools in the course of achieving real ends (like the Olympics as a goal for furthering peace), but this is different from those ends (peace) being a game in themselves.

munificent 10y ago
> This is different from social mores, which are boundaries we respect because transgression has consequences we care about. There are real ends; it's NOT just a game. This just means the games can nest. In the innermost game, you treat social mores as rules to follow and try to excel within them. But there is a surrounding meta-game where you weigh the pros and cons of transgressing the mores and consequences that leads to. In that game, the mores are no longer rules and transgressing is now a move. Around that, yet another game where the moves are putting effort into changing social rules. And so on.
- astazangasta 10y ago
  Except they don't nest. There is no boundary between the social mores 'game' and the transgression 'game', no point where the consequences are contained and the outcome doesn't matter. You're declaring them to be a 'game' because i am evaluating outcomes, but they aren't the same - the results continue to matter to my life.
  - JoshuaDavid 10y ago
    Winning a large chess tournament with a significant cash prize would also matter to the rest of your life, but that doesn't mean that chess is not a game.
    - astazangasta 10y ago
      No, it means 'winning a large amount of money' is not a game. The chess doesn't matter in this scenario.
- GarvielLoken 10y ago
  Why would you do that? It sounds very schizophrenic to me to make one self have such a distance to normal social and emotional life that one represent it to one self as a game. To treat a social overstep as a rule break instead of understanding emphatically that you have caused hurt i would consider schizophrenic / autism. I think it is much more healthy, in a mental health way, to not re-present life and instead experience it directly.