4 ms·

Right question, wrong place. Ask teachers, dentists, gardeners, councillors, vets (both the animal-doctor and the ex-military kind), fish owners, fish eaters,

by nudge 17y ago

Right question, wrong place. Ask teachers, dentists, gardeners, councillors, vets (both the animal-doctor and the ex-military kind), fish owners, fish eaters, mechanics, little old ladies who don't know whether to trust their mechanic, landlords, concierges... You're more likely to get responses you would never even have considered. Look at it this way. It is often said that the best teams / startups are formed of people with different backgrounds, different thinking styles, different worldviews. So you're not going to add much to yourself by asking people (broadly speaking) similar to yourself. Find people totally unlike you. Think of a business you've never even encountered. Does it suck to own a fast food franchise and be totally at the mercy of the brand? Who knows? Maybe it does. Maybe you can help a little. Is it tough to be a guitar teacher nowadays when I can sort-of learn from youtube? I bet it does. Can you help them stand out? Ask your friends about their friends. Who do they know who is in a weird business or industry you're unlikely to know anything about? Maybe they do something hardly anyone knows anything about? I met someone who told me about a friend of theirs who works as a food arranger. For photographing food for cookbooks. She's not the photographer. Or the cook. She's just really good at arranging the food. I had no idea that even existed as a job. So step outside HN and the other places you might frequent online. You might just be able to fix a problem no-one capable of fixing has ever even heard of.

mstevens 17y ago
I half-agree. Clearly the people you describe often have problems for which they would appreciate solutions for which they would be willing to exchange money. On the other hand, news.yc users ALSO tend to have both money and problems, and the best tools are generally ones where the creator had the problems themselves. I guess my point is we could possibly have an interesting conversation about which market is most profitable, but you can't deny the people here are a market you might want to target.
- nudge 17y ago
  Yes, you're absolutely right. It's good if you have some experience of your market. But it is a bit of a problem when your market (say, HNers / web/tech types) are the obvious market for anyone in that market seeking to start a business. Hence the incredible variety of programming text editors, for example. My point is that the intersection of sets of problems had by HNers could be a set of problems that has already been explored, or is at least targeted, by huge numbers of people, simply because it is their first imagined market (i.e. themselves). And in quite a few cases you will be going up against incredibly talented people (or teams) willing to give away their work for free because they believe in free/open source software. Which is a great thing, obviously, but it makes it hard to compete. So yes, you are right. But sometimes it can be good to look outside.
  - mstevens 17y ago
    I agree hugely. I mainly react to the way that people seem to suggest not that targeting tech types is perhaps unwise due to it being a fairly saturated market, but that it's almost morally wrong in some way. Personally my area of focus is on areas where I think my personal interests overlap with a significant potential userbase, and I'm slowly trying to convince myself I can do mySekritProject better than google, or at least, find a niche they're not going for.
keefe 17y ago
I was going to respond to your post anyway, but given that my mom was a food arranger [at least it was a common task at her marketing firm] for some years now I really had to throw that in there... Definitely right question, wrong place. It's kind of like asking your competition, this belongs in a bizdev forum. I think hacker news is going to be the last place I announce my site or hint at the idea. I mean there's only a few thousand devs that are really competent enough to be trouble and I really want to avoid them seeing my ideas before the bakers, photogs and food arrangers.
ErrantX 17y ago
Maybe. But don't forget that Hacker News types have problems that need solving too. Indeed if you solve one of our problems then you have two big advantages: a) a huge pool of tech-savvy seed users b) A much higher likelihood of useful feedback c) I would suggest, also, much better chance of revenue generation
- nudge 17y ago
  I really meant in addition to HN type problems. But to respond to your 'advantages': a) I probably agree with this, although people can be evangelists offline too you know. It's just called word of mouth. b) This is almost certainly wrong. You think people who aren't tech-savvy are unqualified to define what they consider to be useful? c) Back this up, taking into consideration the fact that you might be competing with open source / a pool of equally or more talented developers who could undercut you or do your product better.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    >It's just called word of mouth. Agreed, I've had some success with this in the past. However if you fix a specific problem common to many people here (as opposed, say, specific to Doctors) you can reach them instantly with one post. Your entire seed market is one click away :) > You think people who aren't tech-savvy are unqualified to define what they consider to be usefu No, but there is a pre-established forum for feedback (i.e. here). If you post an app here your going to get great feedback - if people are using your app I argue the feeback will be better/more specific The only difference with other types of users is not that they don't know what they want but that a) they sometimes dont get what is possible/impossible and more importantly b) have trouble communicating their needs to you (that's not an unfixable problem Im sure) > Back this up This was probably something of a leap. However we often see people saying "I would pay X if you gave me Y" - usually from the already successful entrepreneur types. Im suggesting that people here are perhaps more likely to see value/not begrudge payment for a useful service.

by nudge 17y ago

mstevens 17y ago

I half-agree. Clearly the people you describe often have problems for which they would appreciate solutions for which they would be willing to exchange money. On the other hand, news.yc users ALSO tend to have both money and problems, and the best tools are generally ones where the creator had the problems themselves. I guess my point is we could possibly have an interesting conversation about which market is most profitable, but you can't deny the people here are a market you might want to target.

nudge 17y ago
Yes, you're absolutely right. It's good if you have some experience of your market. But it is a bit of a problem when your market (say, HNers / web/tech types) are the obvious market for anyone in that market seeking to start a business. Hence the incredible variety of programming text editors, for example. My point is that the intersection of sets of problems had by HNers could be a set of problems that has already been explored, or is at least targeted, by huge numbers of people, simply because it is their first imagined market (i.e. themselves). And in quite a few cases you will be going up against incredibly talented people (or teams) willing to give away their work for free because they believe in free/open source software. Which is a great thing, obviously, but it makes it hard to compete. So yes, you are right. But sometimes it can be good to look outside.
- mstevens 17y ago
  I agree hugely. I mainly react to the way that people seem to suggest not that targeting tech types is perhaps unwise due to it being a fairly saturated market, but that it's almost morally wrong in some way. Personally my area of focus is on areas where I think my personal interests overlap with a significant potential userbase, and I'm slowly trying to convince myself I can do mySekritProject better than google, or at least, find a niche they're not going for.

keefe 17y ago

I was going to respond to your post anyway, but given that my mom was a food arranger [at least it was a common task at her marketing firm] for some years now I really had to throw that in there... Definitely right question, wrong place. It's kind of like asking your competition, this belongs in a bizdev forum. I think hacker news is going to be the last place I announce my site or hint at the idea. I mean there's only a few thousand devs that are really competent enough to be trouble and I really want to avoid them seeing my ideas before the bakers, photogs and food arrangers.

ErrantX 17y ago

Maybe. But don't forget that Hacker News types have problems that need solving too. Indeed if you solve one of our problems then you have two big advantages: a) a huge pool of tech-savvy seed users b) A much higher likelihood of useful feedback c) I would suggest, also, much better chance of revenue generation

nudge 17y ago
I really meant in addition to HN type problems. But to respond to your 'advantages': a) I probably agree with this, although people can be evangelists offline too you know. It's just called word of mouth. b) This is almost certainly wrong. You think people who aren't tech-savvy are unqualified to define what they consider to be useful? c) Back this up, taking into consideration the fact that you might be competing with open source / a pool of equally or more talented developers who could undercut you or do your product better.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  >It's just called word of mouth. Agreed, I've had some success with this in the past. However if you fix a specific problem common to many people here (as opposed, say, specific to Doctors) you can reach them instantly with one post. Your entire seed market is one click away :) > You think people who aren't tech-savvy are unqualified to define what they consider to be usefu No, but there is a pre-established forum for feedback (i.e. here). If you post an app here your going to get great feedback - if people are using your app I argue the feeback will be better/more specific The only difference with other types of users is not that they don't know what they want but that a) they sometimes dont get what is possible/impossible and more importantly b) have trouble communicating their needs to you (that's not an unfixable problem Im sure) > Back this up This was probably something of a leap. However we often see people saying "I would pay X if you gave me Y" - usually from the already successful entrepreneur types. Im suggesting that people here are perhaps more likely to see value/not begrudge payment for a useful service.