4 ms·

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but what we really need to do is only keep violent offenders in prison, and everyone else can be free.

by xyzzy4 10y ago

tptacek 10y ago
That won't help: mass incarceration is primarily a phenomenon involving "violent" offenses. http://harvardjol.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/HLL104_crop1.pdf http://harvardjol.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/HLL104_crop... By way of example, a plurality of offenders awaiting trial in Cook County lockup are there for domestic violence.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  Not a great example since that's a jail (for short terms stays awaiting trial) not a prison (for long term stays to serve the sentence)
- themartorana 10y ago
  Interesting paper. I do like that it addresses that many prison wins could be had through prosecutorial reforms. While the War on Drugs may have little secondary effect, it was in the same timeframe as "tough on crime" rhetoric as a whole, and with it came prosecutorial aggressiveness. Also the decline of the middle class began around this time period as well... The paper also notes how incredibly difficult prosecutorial reforms would be to come by, which seems both true and depressing.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    It does not gloss over that; it considers that possibility in detail, and addresses it with facts. But ultimately, yes: the problem isn't the war on drugs or long sentences (at least not directly), but rather the staffing and aggressiveness of prosecutors.
    - themartorana 10y ago
      Yup, I changed my comment while you were replying. I still disagree that a lot of this isn't the result of the War on Drugs (and there are studies that agree[1]: "More than 50 percent of people in federal prisons are incarcerated for drug law violations. Almost 500,000 people are behind bars for a drug law violation on any given night in the United States – ten times the total in 1980.") but again we end at the same conclusion. [1] http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA%20Fact%20Sheet_Drug%20War%20Mass%20Incarceration%20and%20Race_(Feb.%202016).pdf http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA%20Fact%20S...
- pc86 10y ago
  Cook County lockup is a jail, and prison is not jail.
dudul 10y ago
What kind of sanction do you imagine then against "non-violent" offenders? Who is to decide what is "violent"? We could make the case that even white-collar crime is a form of violence (e.g. ruining people's life, etc)

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but what we really need to do is only keep violent offenders in prison, and everyone else can be free.

by xyzzy4 10y ago

I know I'm probably in the minority here, but what we really need to do is only keep violent offenders in prison, and everyone else can be free.

tptacek 10y ago

That won't help: mass incarceration is primarily a phenomenon involving "violent" offenses. http://harvardjol.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/HLL104_crop1.pdf http://harvardjol.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/HLL104_crop... By way of example, a plurality of offenders awaiting trial in Cook County lockup are there for domestic violence.

galdosdi 10y ago
Not a great example since that's a jail (for short terms stays awaiting trial) not a prison (for long term stays to serve the sentence)
themartorana 10y ago
Interesting paper. I do like that it addresses that many prison wins could be had through prosecutorial reforms. While the War on Drugs may have little secondary effect, it was in the same timeframe as "tough on crime" rhetoric as a whole, and with it came prosecutorial aggressiveness. Also the decline of the middle class began around this time period as well... The paper also notes how incredibly difficult prosecutorial reforms would be to come by, which seems both true and depressing.
- tptacek 10y ago
  It does not gloss over that; it considers that possibility in detail, and addresses it with facts. But ultimately, yes: the problem isn't the war on drugs or long sentences (at least not directly), but rather the staffing and aggressiveness of prosecutors.
  - themartorana 10y ago
    Yup, I changed my comment while you were replying. I still disagree that a lot of this isn't the result of the War on Drugs (and there are studies that agree[1]: "More than 50 percent of people in federal prisons are incarcerated for drug law violations. Almost 500,000 people are behind bars for a drug law violation on any given night in the United States – ten times the total in 1980.") but again we end at the same conclusion. [1] http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA%20Fact%20Sheet_Drug%20War%20Mass%20Incarceration%20and%20Race_(Feb.%202016).pdf http://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA%20Fact%20S...
pc86 10y ago
Cook County lockup is a jail, and prison is not jail.

dudul 10y ago

What kind of sanction do you imagine then against "non-violent" offenders? Who is to decide what is "violent"? We could make the case that even white-collar crime is a form of violence (e.g. ruining people's life, etc)