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>Ubiquitous comment, as a person within the industry: there's a big difference between cars that have a hands-free driving mode, and cars that do not have a dri

>Ubiquitous comment, as a person within the industry: there's a big difference between cars that have a hands-free driving mode, and cars that do not have a driver. Surely the pay is far less for the passive driver? If not I assume it will be soon.

oDot 10y ago
A driver that's there for safety reasons is a good driver and is paid well
- wavefunction 10y ago
  Sounds like a tautology.
dilap 10y ago
Hmm, I'm not so sure. First, Uber drivers are already not making much. Drivers I've talked to here in SF say they are near $15/hour (though they can more in the form of bonuses if they hit certain hours-driven targets). Second, the job of a passive driver will actually be both more boring and harder -- you have to pay attention while doing nothing, but be ready to take over in a second. It's like being a passenger, except you can't distract yourself in anyway. I'd much rather just drive.
- technofiend 10y ago
  Your example of San Francisco is an outlier - there's too much upward pressure on wages there to let driving compensation fall too low. Let's have the same conversation about Minneapolis, Dallas, St. Paul, Austin, Kansas City, etc. Austin is a great example of a city with a lot of unemployement and underemployment due to the massive student population. Can't you imagine a college student riding around listening to lectures on the radio (assuming they're actually trying to do their job) for $8/hr? I can. And I can see the next student saying "I'll do it for $7.50".
  - 794CD01 10y ago
    Unfortunately the current favored presidential candidate wants to make that situation illegal by raising the federal minimum wage to 12 or more.
    - aianus 10y ago
      I don't think the federal minimum wage applies to contractors sitting around waiting for the next job. The revenue while the clock is running is way above minimum wage.
    - Nutomic 10y ago
      Unfortunately?
  - kamaal 10y ago
    I certainly wouldn't like someone doing as focus demanding activity as studying while driving. Seems like a perfect situation for an accident.
- fps 10y ago
  Drivers ed instructors, which is basically what supervising a self driving car is, are $14/hour average: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Driving_Instructor/Hourly_Rate http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Driving_Instructor/H... I think this is higher than what uber is paying now.
aetherson 10y ago
I can't imagine why. If you were going to devote hours to being behind the wheel of an Uber, would you will willing to do it for "far less" than the already far-from-princely sums that an Uber driver makes?
- technofiend 10y ago
  I literally had an Uber driver this morning who didn't speak enough English to take the route I requested. She knew "Hello", and "Have a nice day." No harm done if she's a competent driver. Would I devote hours being behind the wheel? No. I would try to find a job UNIXing for food because that's what I know. But we're not talking about me. We're talking about folks who have a driver's license, a clean driving record and can pass a background check. If they don't have to supply the vehicle the financial barrier to entry is much lower. So yes I honestly think there will be downward pressure on wages for what is essentially a passive job. Sure you have to pay attention to prevent accidents, but that's it. Time to get out dragon dictate and start verbally writing the next Great American Novel.
  - throwaway049 10y ago
    If you're paying attention to prevent collisions then it's not a passive job. And if I got into a car to find the 'driver' dividing their attention between the road and their novel then I would get right out again.
    - technofiend 10y ago
      It doesn't require a great deal of attention, either, and it's still mostly passive. Unless you're suggesting we should outlaw conversations or listening to the radio we're past the idea that people need their full undivided attention to drive. The question now is just what's the minimum.
      - throwaway049 10y ago
        I've seen people die in the ED because they treated driving as a passive activity. I find your hyperbole about outlawing conversations unhelpful. I very much look forward to computers having better driving skills than I had when I used to work in the ambulance service.
falafel_muncher 10y ago
Solution: pay drivers a bonus for the number of 'accidents avoided', or the amount of times they need to grab the wheel after the car sounds the 'take-the-wheel' ping. Drivers will be incentivized to pick-up passengers in more complex areas, which then improves the data and the car learns how to drive better in complex area.
mikeash 10y ago
I don't see why. Driving is considered a base-level skill in many of the places where Uber operates. It's one of those things you just assume everyone employable can do, like reading or writing. Uber drivers are mostly being paid for their time and for their vehicle, not for their driving skills.

oDot 10y ago

A driver that's there for safety reasons is a good driver and is paid well

wavefunction 10y ago
Sounds like a tautology.

dilap 10y ago

Hmm, I'm not so sure. First, Uber drivers are already not making much. Drivers I've talked to here in SF say they are near $15/hour (though they can more in the form of bonuses if they hit certain hours-driven targets). Second, the job of a passive driver will actually be both more boring and harder -- you have to pay attention while doing nothing, but be ready to take over in a second. It's like being a passenger, except you can't distract yourself in anyway. I'd much rather just drive.

technofiend 10y ago
Your example of San Francisco is an outlier - there's too much upward pressure on wages there to let driving compensation fall too low. Let's have the same conversation about Minneapolis, Dallas, St. Paul, Austin, Kansas City, etc. Austin is a great example of a city with a lot of unemployement and underemployment due to the massive student population. Can't you imagine a college student riding around listening to lectures on the radio (assuming they're actually trying to do their job) for $8/hr? I can. And I can see the next student saying "I'll do it for $7.50".
- 794CD01 10y ago
  Unfortunately the current favored presidential candidate wants to make that situation illegal by raising the federal minimum wage to 12 or more.
  - aianus 10y ago
    I don't think the federal minimum wage applies to contractors sitting around waiting for the next job. The revenue while the clock is running is way above minimum wage.
  - Nutomic 10y ago
    Unfortunately?
- kamaal 10y ago
  I certainly wouldn't like someone doing as focus demanding activity as studying while driving. Seems like a perfect situation for an accident.
fps 10y ago
Drivers ed instructors, which is basically what supervising a self driving car is, are $14/hour average: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Driving_Instructor/Hourly_Rate http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Driving_Instructor/H... I think this is higher than what uber is paying now.

aetherson 10y ago

I can't imagine why. If you were going to devote hours to being behind the wheel of an Uber, would you will willing to do it for "far less" than the already far-from-princely sums that an Uber driver makes?

technofiend 10y ago
I literally had an Uber driver this morning who didn't speak enough English to take the route I requested. She knew "Hello", and "Have a nice day." No harm done if she's a competent driver. Would I devote hours being behind the wheel? No. I would try to find a job UNIXing for food because that's what I know. But we're not talking about me. We're talking about folks who have a driver's license, a clean driving record and can pass a background check. If they don't have to supply the vehicle the financial barrier to entry is much lower. So yes I honestly think there will be downward pressure on wages for what is essentially a passive job. Sure you have to pay attention to prevent accidents, but that's it. Time to get out dragon dictate and start verbally writing the next Great American Novel.
- throwaway049 10y ago
  If you're paying attention to prevent collisions then it's not a passive job. And if I got into a car to find the 'driver' dividing their attention between the road and their novel then I would get right out again.
  - technofiend 10y ago
    It doesn't require a great deal of attention, either, and it's still mostly passive. Unless you're suggesting we should outlaw conversations or listening to the radio we're past the idea that people need their full undivided attention to drive. The question now is just what's the minimum.
    - throwaway049 10y ago
      I've seen people die in the ED because they treated driving as a passive activity. I find your hyperbole about outlawing conversations unhelpful. I very much look forward to computers having better driving skills than I had when I used to work in the ambulance service.

falafel_muncher 10y ago

Solution: pay drivers a bonus for the number of 'accidents avoided', or the amount of times they need to grab the wheel after the car sounds the 'take-the-wheel' ping. Drivers will be incentivized to pick-up passengers in more complex areas, which then improves the data and the car learns how to drive better in complex area.

mikeash 10y ago

I don't see why. Driving is considered a base-level skill in many of the places where Uber operates. It's one of those things you just assume everyone employable can do, like reading or writing. Uber drivers are mostly being paid for their time and for their vehicle, not for their driving skills.