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To add to other anecdotes, there was quite a few fires in new jeeps while parked and off. http://jalopnik.com/why-jeeps-catch-on-fire-and-why-chrysler-doesnt-w

by MertsA 10y ago

To add to other anecdotes, there was quite a few fires in new jeeps while parked and off. http://jalopnik.com/why-jeeps-catch-on-fire-and-why-chrysler-doesnt-want-to-511435881 http://jalopnik.com/why-jeeps-catch-on-fire-and-why-chrysler... http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-recalls-164000-cherokees-for-electrical-fire-risk/ http://blog.caranddriver.com/jeep-recalls-164000-cherokees-f... http://www.abcactionnews.com/money/consumer/taking-action-for-you/what-is-causing-these-vehicles-to-catch-fire-with-dirvers-behind-the-wheel http://www.abcactionnews.com/money/consumer/taking-action-fo... So far for Tesla, all fires have been determined to be caused by collision damage breaching the battery. I guess we'll see if this case was a manufacturing defect or road debris, but if it was caused by a manufacturing defect then this would be the first case of that for Tesla as far as I'm aware. As a side note, Tesla claims to have put quite a bit of care into designing the floor pan and battery such that in cases like this, a fire shouldn't breach into the cabin for a while. In theory, even after the fire is well underway, the design of the car should give passengers plenty of time to get out.

FireBeyond 10y ago
"As a side note, Tesla claims to have put quite a bit of care into designing the floor pan and battery such that in cases like this, a fire shouldn't breach into the cabin for a while. In theory, even after the fire is well underway, the design of the car should give passengers plenty of time to get out." That's not particularly (or at all) unique to Tesla. Safety regulations and laws require all new cars to be designed in a way to maximize the time needed for flames to impinge upon the cabin. As a firefighter, vehicle firefighting is an interesting endeavor: we have to cool down bumpers (the heat can cause struts to expand/explode, blowing the front or side bumpers or panels out, possibly directly into the path of legs). Similarly with wheel wells. The typical approach will be to cool down with water as approaching from an angle (or from the direction of the cabin if there are trapped occupants), have a second firefighter breach the hood, get water under there, and go from that point on.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  That's kind of odd considering that the failure mode of shock absorbers that are overheated is to pop their seals and lose pressure. I'm sure with a pile of them to set on fire you could figure out a way to make them go boom. Sounds like a "it happened once therefore policy change kind of thing", but I'm not qualified to judge firefighting techniques. The thing about bumpers just sounds plain dated. Nothing's had bumper shocks since the 1980s and most sedans don't have an appreciable amount of metal in the bumper to the point where it's about as structural as the core support and the time would be better spent on a different part of the problem. Citation? x2 about cabins being designed for survivability though.
  - FireBeyond 10y ago
    There are definitely elements of the fire service that are - for better or worse - "this is the way it's always been done". In some ways it works. It doesn't noticeably change your efforts or effectiveness, just your tactics, and now you don't need to question "is this a feature of this car?". Just like "what cars use extensive magnesium in the engine block?" or "does this vehicle have airbags? did they deploy? how about side airbags?" Just assume they do, and use a commonality of technique. There's definitely a challenge between reconciling techniques that work in the field and textbook operations, and then keeping both up to date with the latest 'discoveries' - for instance forty years ago many fires were contained by a lack of fuel, nowadays it's a lack of oxygen (better sealing, even with ventilation systems) and higher fuel loads (petrochemicals in homes and furniture) mean that oftentimes by the time we get on scene you can have this home that is a darkened down box, thick black smoke with little or no visible flame, hotter than anything, and as soon as you open a door, you have about 90 seconds to get some cooling applied, or you're going to have flash over by virtue of all the oxygen you just supplied to this nascent fire.
- MertsA 10y ago
  I'd expect that there would be some regulations surrounding fire safety but Tesla went so far as to use ceramic and steel for the floor pan. I've never heard of any other vehicle using ceramics to create a firewall. Even just the steel in addition to the ceramic is odd as the rest of the body and chassis is aluminum to save weight. I believe that the firewall is the only large steel plate in the entire car, the only other large steel reinforcement that I'm aware of is the B pillars. I don't think it's unfair to say that Tesla went above and beyond on their design of the firewall. Even looking at the burned out husks from previous fires, the rest of the body literally melted away yet the floor pan appears to be in one piece. I don't see how you could realistically improve on that and from seeing images of burned out fisker karmas, I think Tesla is doing a better job than their competitors in this regard.

by MertsA 10y ago

FireBeyond 10y ago

"As a side note, Tesla claims to have put quite a bit of care into designing the floor pan and battery such that in cases like this, a fire shouldn't breach into the cabin for a while. In theory, even after the fire is well underway, the design of the car should give passengers plenty of time to get out." That's not particularly (or at all) unique to Tesla. Safety regulations and laws require all new cars to be designed in a way to maximize the time needed for flames to impinge upon the cabin. As a firefighter, vehicle firefighting is an interesting endeavor: we have to cool down bumpers (the heat can cause struts to expand/explode, blowing the front or side bumpers or panels out, possibly directly into the path of legs). Similarly with wheel wells. The typical approach will be to cool down with water as approaching from an angle (or from the direction of the cabin if there are trapped occupants), have a second firefighter breach the hood, get water under there, and go from that point on.

dsfyu404ed 10y ago
That's kind of odd considering that the failure mode of shock absorbers that are overheated is to pop their seals and lose pressure. I'm sure with a pile of them to set on fire you could figure out a way to make them go boom. Sounds like a "it happened once therefore policy change kind of thing", but I'm not qualified to judge firefighting techniques. The thing about bumpers just sounds plain dated. Nothing's had bumper shocks since the 1980s and most sedans don't have an appreciable amount of metal in the bumper to the point where it's about as structural as the core support and the time would be better spent on a different part of the problem. Citation? x2 about cabins being designed for survivability though.
- FireBeyond 10y ago
  There are definitely elements of the fire service that are - for better or worse - "this is the way it's always been done". In some ways it works. It doesn't noticeably change your efforts or effectiveness, just your tactics, and now you don't need to question "is this a feature of this car?". Just like "what cars use extensive magnesium in the engine block?" or "does this vehicle have airbags? did they deploy? how about side airbags?" Just assume they do, and use a commonality of technique. There's definitely a challenge between reconciling techniques that work in the field and textbook operations, and then keeping both up to date with the latest 'discoveries' - for instance forty years ago many fires were contained by a lack of fuel, nowadays it's a lack of oxygen (better sealing, even with ventilation systems) and higher fuel loads (petrochemicals in homes and furniture) mean that oftentimes by the time we get on scene you can have this home that is a darkened down box, thick black smoke with little or no visible flame, hotter than anything, and as soon as you open a door, you have about 90 seconds to get some cooling applied, or you're going to have flash over by virtue of all the oxygen you just supplied to this nascent fire.
MertsA 10y ago
I'd expect that there would be some regulations surrounding fire safety but Tesla went so far as to use ceramic and steel for the floor pan. I've never heard of any other vehicle using ceramics to create a firewall. Even just the steel in addition to the ceramic is odd as the rest of the body and chassis is aluminum to save weight. I believe that the firewall is the only large steel plate in the entire car, the only other large steel reinforcement that I'm aware of is the B pillars. I don't think it's unfair to say that Tesla went above and beyond on their design of the firewall. Even looking at the burned out husks from previous fires, the rest of the body literally melted away yet the floor pan appears to be in one piece. I don't see how you could realistically improve on that and from seeing images of burned out fisker karmas, I think Tesla is doing a better job than their competitors in this regard.