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Even if you opt out, you're still sending telemetry. Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. It takes telemetry for apple

Even if you opt out, you're still sending telemetry. Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. It takes telemetry for apple store to check your system and see if your apps need updating. it takes telemetry to check if your icloud is backed up. it takes telemetry to say "it will take you 20 minutes to drive home" notifications that popup..

syshum 10y ago
>>Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. You assumption that everyone that owns a smart phone is a icloud user or uses the apple store is ridiculous
- cptskippy 10y ago
  I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. The number of people who do what you do is minuscule. The people with the technical ability and knowledge to do that is also a very small subset of the population. You can stand on your high horse and tell everyone they have a choice and to not stand for such things but it's disingenuous at best. There are people out there without the technical expertise or fundamental ability to obtain such knowledge. There are people who are financially incapable of doing it as well. You can spout off about how affordable it is but your phone probably cost them a month's salary.
  - hendersoon 10y ago
    My statement was that the telemetry wasn't baked into the OS itself-- and it isn't. It's in the programs you _run_ on the OS, so the user has agency. How many users opt for the extreme inconvenience of turning off Google Play Services and all the Google apps isn't really the point-- they _could_. Windows telemetry is baked in the OS. I believe that is a fundamental difference. Also, I don't think it's disingenuous to say that users have different expectations of mobile and desktop operating systems. Apple's iOS has always sent basic telemetry; until recently Windows didn't. Apple doesn't have a history of compromising users' privacy then lying about it, unlike Microsoft with Skype. And finally, while Apple is sending some telemetry, they are actually serious about their users' privacy and are collecting data with a technical solution that truly does guarantee anonymity. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting-data/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-co...
    - cptskippy 10y ago
      What constitutes being baked in? Various components of Windows gather telemetry data, the basic stuff is pulled by the Diagnostics Tracking Service which can simple be disabled. Other things such as Office and Contana gather in their own ways. That's no more baked in than Google Play Services is baked into Android. The fundamental difference is that Windows isn't Open Source so you can't go to a repo and pull down a clean version of it. Windows has been sending telemetry data since XP. Until recently Apple hasn't had much market share or scrutiny. We're starting to see that change happening with new malware targeting MacOS showing up and plenty of buggy software.
      - hendersoon 10y ago
        You can simply uninstall Google Play Services. You can't uninstall the telemetry and tracking stuff. You need to disable services, make changes to the registry, remove task scheduler entries, and block access in your firewall to truly secure Win10. Telemetry, previously called "Windows Customer Experience" or something similar, in versions of windows earlier than 10 could easily be turned off. Recently MS added the full-on Win10 style telemetry to Win7 and 8 too, but that is a very recent development.
- ionised 10y ago
  * I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. * Same here. It's really not as difficult or inconvenient as people assume.

syshum 10y ago

>>Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. You assumption that everyone that owns a smart phone is a icloud user or uses the apple store is ridiculous

cptskippy 10y ago
I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. The number of people who do what you do is minuscule. The people with the technical ability and knowledge to do that is also a very small subset of the population. You can stand on your high horse and tell everyone they have a choice and to not stand for such things but it's disingenuous at best. There are people out there without the technical expertise or fundamental ability to obtain such knowledge. There are people who are financially incapable of doing it as well. You can spout off about how affordable it is but your phone probably cost them a month's salary.
- hendersoon 10y ago
  My statement was that the telemetry wasn't baked into the OS itself-- and it isn't. It's in the programs you _run_ on the OS, so the user has agency. How many users opt for the extreme inconvenience of turning off Google Play Services and all the Google apps isn't really the point-- they _could_. Windows telemetry is baked in the OS. I believe that is a fundamental difference. Also, I don't think it's disingenuous to say that users have different expectations of mobile and desktop operating systems. Apple's iOS has always sent basic telemetry; until recently Windows didn't. Apple doesn't have a history of compromising users' privacy then lying about it, unlike Microsoft with Skype. And finally, while Apple is sending some telemetry, they are actually serious about their users' privacy and are collecting data with a technical solution that truly does guarantee anonymity. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting-data/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-co...
  - cptskippy 10y ago
    What constitutes being baked in? Various components of Windows gather telemetry data, the basic stuff is pulled by the Diagnostics Tracking Service which can simple be disabled. Other things such as Office and Contana gather in their own ways. That's no more baked in than Google Play Services is baked into Android. The fundamental difference is that Windows isn't Open Source so you can't go to a repo and pull down a clean version of it. Windows has been sending telemetry data since XP. Until recently Apple hasn't had much market share or scrutiny. We're starting to see that change happening with new malware targeting MacOS showing up and plenty of buggy software.
    - hendersoon 10y ago
      You can simply uninstall Google Play Services. You can't uninstall the telemetry and tracking stuff. You need to disable services, make changes to the registry, remove task scheduler entries, and block access in your firewall to truly secure Win10. Telemetry, previously called "Windows Customer Experience" or something similar, in versions of windows earlier than 10 could easily be turned off. Recently MS added the full-on Win10 style telemetry to Win7 and 8 too, but that is a very recent development.
ionised 10y ago
* I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. * Same here. It's really not as difficult or inconvenient as people assume.