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I hope to one day have children and experience these things, but this runs counter to the narrative that parents put forward rationalizing why these kinds of be

I hope to one day have children and experience these things, but this runs counter to the narrative that parents put forward rationalizing why these kinds of benefits should not be afforded to people who choose not to have children. Often I've seen the argument that having and raising children is, itself, a form of work not a vacation or that having children is a form of public good and that's the reason why we can't all just have a standard paid "leave of absence".

silencio 10y ago
That narrative is a bit strange in the US, as the only federal/state mandated leave afforded to new parents (if they even qualify) is one that covers major medical/caretaker leave too.
gaius 10y ago
raising children is, itself, a form of work This would be true if the child were the property of the company paying for its raising ;-)
- anamoulous 10y ago
  There's a problem in language here too. Obviously a child isn't a form of paid work in service of a company, but if not work and if not vacation what is this? If this is a medical leave, then how do we extend this opportunity for medical leave to those who choose to not or cannot have children? Or do we just say that having children is just that, having children, and that parenting is a privileged class?
  - gaius 10y ago
    On a planet of 7Bn with dwindling resources the case that making more people should be rewarded or subsidized isn't very convincing.
    - cgio 10y ago
      If you don't subsidize another country will. Where will that get you in a couple generations.
      - gaius 10y ago
        What are you saying, that only children of your own race matter?
        anamoulous 10y ago
        No they are saying that the societies best investment in the future is ensuring that the children of that society are nurtured and provided for. I agree with this and I think it's on us all to pitch in. I also think that those who don't have children should have the opportunity to have the same time away from work that parents who get time to "have the best times of their lives" are allowed.
  - ori_b 10y ago
    > Obviously a child isn't a form of paid work in service of a company, but if not work and if not vacation what is this? Sabbatical. It's time off from work to make some significant progress on a side project that isn't directly related to work.
    - gaius 10y ago
      There's no reason a sabbatical shouldn't be available to anyone then, child or no child.
yomly 10y ago
It's a shame we see it this way. Fewer people would resent paying tax which goes towards roads and healthcare even if they never travelled much and were healthy - they appreciate this as a basic right for people (sure, some will even disagree about this) but we now live in times where raising a family is no longer seen as a cause we should happily support as a part of our society.

silencio 10y ago

That narrative is a bit strange in the US, as the only federal/state mandated leave afforded to new parents (if they even qualify) is one that covers major medical/caretaker leave too.

gaius 10y ago

raising children is, itself, a form of work This would be true if the child were the property of the company paying for its raising ;-)

anamoulous 10y ago
There's a problem in language here too. Obviously a child isn't a form of paid work in service of a company, but if not work and if not vacation what is this? If this is a medical leave, then how do we extend this opportunity for medical leave to those who choose to not or cannot have children? Or do we just say that having children is just that, having children, and that parenting is a privileged class?
- gaius 10y ago
  On a planet of 7Bn with dwindling resources the case that making more people should be rewarded or subsidized isn't very convincing.
  - cgio 10y ago
    If you don't subsidize another country will. Where will that get you in a couple generations.
    - gaius 10y ago
      What are you saying, that only children of your own race matter?
      - anamoulous 10y ago
        No they are saying that the societies best investment in the future is ensuring that the children of that society are nurtured and provided for. I agree with this and I think it's on us all to pitch in. I also think that those who don't have children should have the opportunity to have the same time away from work that parents who get time to "have the best times of their lives" are allowed.
- ori_b 10y ago
  > Obviously a child isn't a form of paid work in service of a company, but if not work and if not vacation what is this? Sabbatical. It's time off from work to make some significant progress on a side project that isn't directly related to work.
  - gaius 10y ago
    There's no reason a sabbatical shouldn't be available to anyone then, child or no child.

yomly 10y ago

It's a shame we see it this way. Fewer people would resent paying tax which goes towards roads and healthcare even if they never travelled much and were healthy - they appreciate this as a basic right for people (sure, some will even disagree about this) but we now live in times where raising a family is no longer seen as a cause we should happily support as a part of our society.