3 ms·

So why aren't we complaining about this industry practice? It's purely focused on MS.

WhatIsDukkha 10y ago
We have choices outside of the win32 bubble - https://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429 https://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429
- cptskippy 10y ago
  I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread of conversation.
hendersoon 10y ago
Put simply, Apple and Google allow users to opt-out. You can run Android and not send Google a single byte of information. You can't run google's _apps_ and do that-- gmail, google calendar, the google play store, and so on. But it isn't mandatory. Telemetry is in the apps, not the OS. Even if I set telemetry to "basic" (the lowest it will go), turn off Cortana, and don't use IE or Edge (or any other MS app), Windows 10 sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's not OK.
- ksk 10y ago
  >Even if I set telemetry to "basic" (the lowest it will go), turn off Cortana, and don't use IE or Edge (or any other MS app), Windows 10 sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's not OK. It doesn't on my setup. I have neutered that shit completely.
  - hendersoon 10y ago
    Yep, me too. But I needed to run a third-party program, configure firewall rules, and change group policies to do so.
- supernovae 10y ago
  Even if you opt out, you're still sending telemetry. Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. It takes telemetry for apple store to check your system and see if your apps need updating. it takes telemetry to check if your icloud is backed up. it takes telemetry to say "it will take you 20 minutes to drive home" notifications that popup..
  - syshum 10y ago
    >>Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. You assumption that everyone that owns a smart phone is a icloud user or uses the apple store is ridiculous
    - cptskippy 10y ago
      I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. The number of people who do what you do is minuscule. The people with the technical ability and knowledge to do that is also a very small subset of the population. You can stand on your high horse and tell everyone they have a choice and to not stand for such things but it's disingenuous at best. There are people out there without the technical expertise or fundamental ability to obtain such knowledge. There are people who are financially incapable of doing it as well. You can spout off about how affordable it is but your phone probably cost them a month's salary.
      - hendersoon 10y ago
        My statement was that the telemetry wasn't baked into the OS itself-- and it isn't. It's in the programs you _run_ on the OS, so the user has agency. How many users opt for the extreme inconvenience of turning off Google Play Services and all the Google apps isn't really the point-- they _could_. Windows telemetry is baked in the OS. I believe that is a fundamental difference. Also, I don't think it's disingenuous to say that users have different expectations of mobile and desktop operating systems. Apple's iOS has always sent basic telemetry; until recently Windows didn't. Apple doesn't have a history of compromising users' privacy then lying about it, unlike Microsoft with Skype. And finally, while Apple is sending some telemetry, they are actually serious about their users' privacy and are collecting data with a technical solution that truly does guarantee anonymity. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting-data/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-co...
ionised 10y ago
We are. Where have you been?

We have choices outside of the win32 bubble - https://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429 https://twitter.com/Arubin/status/27808662429

cptskippy 10y ago
I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread of conversation.

hendersoon 10y ago

Put simply, Apple and Google allow users to opt-out. You can run Android and not send Google a single byte of information. You can't run google's _apps_ and do that-- gmail, google calendar, the google play store, and so on. But it isn't mandatory. Telemetry is in the apps, not the OS. Even if I set telemetry to "basic" (the lowest it will go), turn off Cortana, and don't use IE or Edge (or any other MS app), Windows 10 sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's not OK.

ksk 10y ago
>Even if I set telemetry to "basic" (the lowest it will go), turn off Cortana, and don't use IE or Edge (or any other MS app), Windows 10 sends telemetry to Microsoft. That's not OK. It doesn't on my setup. I have neutered that shit completely.
- hendersoon 10y ago
  Yep, me too. But I needed to run a third-party program, configure firewall rules, and change group policies to do so.
supernovae 10y ago
Even if you opt out, you're still sending telemetry. Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. It takes telemetry for apple store to check your system and see if your apps need updating. it takes telemetry to check if your icloud is backed up. it takes telemetry to say "it will take you 20 minutes to drive home" notifications that popup..
- syshum 10y ago
  >>Unless your telling me your buying a smart phone and never installing an app. I have a smartphone that does not send info to google or apple. Runs Andriod with no google account, no Google Services, and my app store is FDriod not the play store. You assumption that everyone that owns a smart phone is a icloud user or uses the apple store is ridiculous
  - cptskippy 10y ago
    I wouldn't say it's ridiculous. The number of people who do what you do is minuscule. The people with the technical ability and knowledge to do that is also a very small subset of the population. You can stand on your high horse and tell everyone they have a choice and to not stand for such things but it's disingenuous at best. There are people out there without the technical expertise or fundamental ability to obtain such knowledge. There are people who are financially incapable of doing it as well. You can spout off about how affordable it is but your phone probably cost them a month's salary.
    - hendersoon 10y ago
      My statement was that the telemetry wasn't baked into the OS itself-- and it isn't. It's in the programs you _run_ on the OS, so the user has agency. How many users opt for the extreme inconvenience of turning off Google Play Services and all the Google apps isn't really the point-- they _could_. Windows telemetry is baked in the OS. I believe that is a fundamental difference. Also, I don't think it's disingenuous to say that users have different expectations of mobile and desktop operating systems. Apple's iOS has always sent basic telemetry; until recently Windows didn't. Apple doesn't have a history of compromising users' privacy then lying about it, unlike Microsoft with Skype. And finally, while Apple is sending some telemetry, they are actually serious about their users' privacy and are collecting data with a technical solution that truly does guarantee anonymity. https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-collecting-data/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/apples-differential-privacy-co...

ionised 10y ago

We are. Where have you been?